Enhanced Damage on Circlets

It appears that circlets can a prefix for up to 30% enhanced damage, namely Deadly. This is enhanced damage on non-weapons, which has a very big impact on the final damage output. I imagine a rare

Circlet with +2 class skill, 30% enhanced damage, 2 sockets and ideally one or two other good affixes, such as faster cast rate, faster run/walk and resistances would be very hot. However, it doesn't seem to be the case.

Am I missing something?

https://d2runewizard.com/articles/mecha ... alculation

((dmgbasex%dmgweapon)+dmgflat)x%dmgoffhand

add on

Circlet give U very poor boost. only direct weapon modification can boost dmg significantly.

I'm aware of how the damage is calculated. Your formula, though being a simplified version, is correct. The

x%dmgoffhand

part is why off-weapon ED is so powerful - it is applied after all damages on the weapons are summed up. This is why Fortitude (on body armors) and

Steelrend are so powerful.

By the way, I use https://maxroll.gg/d2/resources/damage-calculation as the reference for damage calculation.

EDIT: If you expand

((dmgbasex%dmgweapon)+dmgflat)x%dmgoffhand

, you get

(dmgbasex%dmgweapon)x%dmgoffhand + dmgflatx%dmgoffhand

. In the first part, on-weapon ED is equal to off-weapon ED in regards to the significance. However, on-weapon ED is missing in the second part. The flat damage is multiplied by the off-weapon ED only. This is why off-weapon ED is more powerful than on-weapon ED.

It is quite valuable for LLD.
For higher level, you have many other options: Gface Andyface, Arreatface, Jalal.

bubix wrote: 1 year ago

I'm aware of how the damage is calculated. Your formula, though being a simplified version, is correct. The

x%dmgoffhand

part is why off-weapon ED is so powerful - it is applied after all damages on the weapons are summed up. This is why Fortitude (on body armors) and

Steelrend are so powerful.

By the way, I use https://maxroll.gg/d2/resources/damage-calculation as the reference for damage calculation.

but it is not powerful.
[(A*B)+C]*D

D is about 1500-1700% from every modification from character, equ. etc. Wheh U add jewel 40%ed D will be 15,40 instead 15,00, small boost.
But when U add 40% to B, that gives 1,4A * D - that IS boost.
Hart is an small exception, it has 300% add, but U loose Eni.
And finally, more important to me is IAS, so

Steelrend is not a good option. LoH has 20% IAS, must have in almost every mele build.

Ofcourse we don't talk about merc... only main character.

mockingbirdreal wrote: 1 year ago

For higher level, you have many other options: Gface Andyface, Arreatface, Jalal.

In my personal experience,

Arreat's Face and

Andariel's Visage can't compete with

Steelrend. I've got a low

Steelrend (47% ED). If I'm using it, I can replace the

Helm with any other one, e.g.,

Kira's Guardian, and I still kill much faster.

I haven't used

Guillaume's Face, though. Just thinking out loud. Crushing blow is great on a near full HP, but the effect diminishes when the HP is low. And many weapons/runewords come with crushing blow. Is it the Deadly Strike that matters? The number doesn't seem great compared to

Critical Strike from a barb's mastery.

which character do U play? what build use

Steelrend?

Johny82PL wrote: 1 year ago

[(A*B)+C]*D

D is about 1500-1700% from every modification from character, equ. etc. Wheh U add jewel 40%ed D will be 15,40 instead 15,00, small boost.
But when U add 40% to B, that gives 1,4A * D - that IS boost.
Hart is an small exception, it has 300% add, but U loose Eni.
And finally, more important to me is IAS, so

Steelrend is not a good option. LoH has 20% IAS, must have in almost every mele build.

How did you get 1500-1700% for D, if not considering the merc?

What matters for the off-weapon ED is that the on-weapon ED is usually maximized. In this case, having off-weapon ED can be a big plus. In addition, off-weapon ED also applies to the flat damage, which on-weapon ED doesn't. Check my edit above.

I tried a 47%ED

Steelrend with my

Frenzy barb. It blew LoH out of the water when it comes to the killing speed. I play PvM only, though.

Johny82PL wrote: 1 year ago

which character do U play? what build use

Steelrend?

It's a hybrid barb with

Frenzy as the main attack skill and

Berserk (10 points) as the secondary attack skill. It also does item find.

The off-weapon ED is a sum of all your ED from skills/auras and non-weapon equipment. Many builds can easily reach a total off-weapon ED of 1000 or higher, especially when considering auras (

Fanaticism, Might,

Concentration). When you already have a total off-weapon ED of 1000 or more, an extra 30-60 is peanuts. One reason you may be seeing a large effect of

Steelrend vs

Laying of Hands may be that

Steelrend provides Crushing Blow. You'll notice that particularly if you have no other source of Crushing Blow and vs high HP enemies.

ShadowHeart wrote: 1 year ago

Steelrend provides Crushing Blow. You'll notice that particularly if you have no other source of Crushing Blow and vs high HP enemies.

That's what I'm thinking. I did try some

Blood Gloves with 8% CB and 20% IAS briefly. Didn't notice the difference, though. I'll be using it more to see if it can compete with

Steelrend.

Ignoring for a second the obvious exceptions of builds that don't use weapon dmg and those that use something like Grief where you only care about the flat dmg and on-weapon ED does close to nothing for you, off-weapon ED tends to be far worse than on-weapon ED, simply because both are multipliers on the same chain but the off-weapon ED one tends to be significantly higher as it is the sum of all off-weapon ED (skills, stats, other gear, ...). Simple math dictates that an increase to the already higher multiplier yields less than the same increase to the smaller one.

However, that's kind of besides the point here as on-weapon ED isn't an option for circlets. You're just comparing to other

Circlet prefixes. And for that..

For literally any magic version, 30 ED will never (ever) be the top choice because even if you want ED above other stats, Artisan's would still win as the 3rd socket will always allow for more than 30 ED to be added.

For rare versions, you're still competing for one of 3 prefix slots. Much like the magic one, an extra socket will always win. 2 slots left. For most builds, skills will also win out. So that takes you to one slot left. For that last slot, the 30 ED would have to win out against things like 120 AR, 20 all res, 40 individual res, or 10 mf. There's very (VERY) few builds who'd take ED over those other stats. And most of those builds tend to be so offensively focused that they'd go even further and want a magic one instead for a 3rd socket and even more ED, taking you back to the above.

So basically..30 ED isn't bad by any means, it just isn't as good as the alternatives for 999 out of 1000 builds.

bubix wrote: 1 year ago

In my personal experience,

Arreat's Face and

Andariel's Visage can't compete with

Steelrend. I've got a low

Steelrend (47% ED). If I'm using it, I can replace the

Helm with any other one, e.g.,

Kira's Guardian, and I still kill much faster.

I haven't used

Guillaume's Face, though. Just thinking out loud. Crushing blow is great on a near full HP, but the effect diminishes when the HP is low. And many weapons/runewords come with crushing blow. Is it the Deadly Strike that matters? The number doesn't seem great compared to

Critical Strike from a barb's mastery.

Just can't compare

Helm and gloves. You can use

Andariel's Visage and

Steelrend at the same time.
The main reason to use

Andariel's Visage is to hit the next IAS breakpoint beside other useful mods.

Arreat's Face is all around a good and cheap option for almost any barbarian build.

bubix wrote: 1 year ago

It appears that circlets can a prefix for up to 30% enhanced damage, namely Deadly. This is enhanced damage on non-weapons, which has a very big impact on the final damage output. I imagine a rare

Circlet with +2 class skill, 30% enhanced damage, 2 sockets and ideally one or two other good affixes, such as faster cast rate, faster run/walk and resistances would be very hot. However, it doesn't seem to be the case.

Am I missing something?

This is more to Schnorki's point, but based on what you described above, you have this:

[+2 class skill prefix]
Deadly
Mechanic's
of the Magus
of Speed
Prismatic

We know that a rare can have up to three prefixes and three suffixes. There are few scenarios where I would take the Deadly prefix above the other three that are listed there. Also, the Visionary prefix has to be under consideration as a top prefix as well depending on the character (sub)class. In the case of a physical barb, a rare circlet isn't the best helm option to begin with, but I'd opt for Berserker's/Mechanic's/Visionary over Deadly.

https://old.reddit.com/r/diablo2/commen ... let_guide/

That Reddit post above has some additional considerations for best affixes for each class, but I can also add as personal data points that between my bowazon and spearazon, both of whom could consider the class-specific Valkyrie's prefix to be expendable, only the spearazon benefits more from additional off-weapon ED over max damage. In all practicality though, I'd rather have a third socket in a magic circlet than a rare with two sockets and up to 30% ED.

I theorycrafted a rare circlet for my spearazon and while there is a scenario where I'd be willing to give up a third socket and 10% ED for two additional godly suffixes in a rare versus a magic, the chances of such a rare circlet ever becoming available for trade and at a sensible price is so small that it hasn't been worth considering. Even the fact that I'm using my physical spearazon as an example, a subclass that I have never seen anyone on Battle.net play at a high character level besides myself, goes to show how niche the case is for a rare circlet with the Deadly prefix.

@Schnorki and Snakecharmed: Thanks for the write-up. It makes sense now.

My impression that

Steelrend outperformed LoH must have been wrong.

Well, maybe the IAS on

Laying of Hands didn't actually make you reach a higher attack speed breakpoint? In that case, you wouldn't notice. It depends on your skills and the rest of your gear, of course. And maybe you weren't fighting demons? LoH shines in particular vs demons with that 350 extra ED.

ShadowHeart wrote: 1 year ago

Well, maybe the IAS on

Laying of Hands didn't actually make you reach a higher attack speed breakpoint? In that case, you wouldn't notice. It depends on your skills and the rest of your gear, of course. And maybe you weren't fighting demons? LoH shines in particular vs demons with that 350 extra ED.

I did notice the speed difference. I drew the conclusion that

Steelrend was superior when I was running

Travincal. I suppose the council members are demons.

Anyway, I think I drew the conclusion. I should have run more tests.

Thanks for the replies.

Well, that's an entirely different comparison.

Steelrend definitely outperforms LoH in a number of situations and for a number of builds. The 60 ED is not only double of what a

Circlet would add, the 20 Str adds even more of it. And typically more importantly, the 10% crushing blow can become quite noticeable.

The problem is its just another small bit of ED stacking into a larger pool of ED that u get from fort, auras, skills, etc... Also lets not forget Str counts for ED for most phys builds, so a lot of melee helms already have up to 15-30 (if you don't spec towards the buff)

I mean, if there weren't other great alternatives, then of course we would choose ED

Circlet with other nice mods, but as long as Arreats, Vamp's, Guil's, and Andy's exist it seems impractical to use such a

Helm.

bubix wrote: 1 year ago

ShadowHeart wrote: 1 year ago

Well, maybe the IAS on

Laying of Hands didn't actually make you reach a higher attack speed breakpoint? In that case, you wouldn't notice. It depends on your skills and the rest of your gear, of course. And maybe you weren't fighting demons? LoH shines in particular vs demons with that 350 extra ED.

I did notice the speed difference. I drew the conclusion that

Steelrend was superior when I was running

Travincal. I suppose the council members are demons.

Anyway, I think I drew the conclusion. I should have run more tests.

Thanks for the replies.

when U have enough

Frenzy lvl and proper weapon (PB for example) - U don't need to wear LoH, Highlord etc., because IAS comes from

Frenzy. But only

Frenzy and maybe

Fanaticism aura can makes that. Other characters need to reach IAS lvl with the gear, so pure dmg is not most important, DMG/s is.