MF and Uniques - can I trust this and am I reading it right?

https://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Magic_fi ... ng_returns

Is this table trustworthy? Does it apply equally to all enemy types? (bosses, White enemies, gold enemies, Pindle, etc etc)?

And, am I reading it right? Ie, compare 250 MF to 400 MF:

250 MF finds 2.25 as many uniques as 0 MF.

400 MF finds 2.53 as many uniques as 0 MF.

Therefore, statistically speaking, roughly for every 9 uniques I find at 250 MF, I could have instead found 10 uniques at 400 MF? Of course, there is RNG - so, you could have crazy weird luck where you keep rolling in the margin between 250 MF and 400 MF ; or alternatively ; you could roll within the margin for 250 MF every single time, repeatedly.

I don't know about these stats specifically (most likely they are right) but yes, MF has incredibly high diminishing returns;

Your first few MF points make a big difference, but it quickly gets to the point where adding more MF only gives you a very minor bonus.

So if it slow you down too much, sometimes it's not worth it. Say if you find 11% more uniques but the enemies take you 25% longer to kill, then it's counter productive (especially when considering that you'll 'lose' 25% of your runes/hour, 25% of your experience, etc..)

yep, diminishing turns kick in hard. I also don't know if those exact numbers are correct, but they sound about right based on everything I've seen in the past. There is definitely a sweet spot where you have a good blend of a little magic find and fast clearing times. I usually aim for about 250 magic find. More is better, but not that much better, and can be worse if it slows you down.

Also note that the only thing magic find does is color the items that drop. The loot table will pick stuff to drop, and once an item is decided, magic find will effect the odds of it being normal/magic/rare/set/unique. This means it has no impact on number of scrolls, potions, runes, etc dropping.

Unique find = 250*MF/(250 + MF), where the numbers are percents, and "MF" is your sheet magic find %.
This asymptotically approaches 250%. 250% is 3.5X your normal unique find chance. So literally, even if you hero editted a character with 10000000000000% magic find, you'd only get like 249.9% unique find.

For sets I believe it's
500*MF/(500+MF)

And rares I believe it's
600*MF/(600+MF)

So yea, there's very little effective difference between 250% MF and 400%. You'll see like 13% more uniques. But, if you see a blue

Diadem drop and you're running only 250% MF, you'll always wonder if it would have been a

Griffon's Eye if you had 400%. That said, you may get a lot more total Diadems to drop at 250% MF if your clear speed is a lot higher.

Awesome, thanks guys. And to be clear, MF does NOT affect charms of any kind, nor runes of course, right?

Snape75 wrote: 3 years ago

Awesome, thanks guys. And to be clear, MF does NOT affect charms of any kind, nor runes of course, right?

It affects magic drops up to 1000% MF.

Just increases the chances that the items that drop from whatever you killed will be a magic "blue" item.
To elaborate more, rare items(yellow), set items(green) + unique items(gold) MF curve is not linear like magic items(blue).

Maybe rare linear also, but I haven't looked at the chart in a while. Just google. Looked at the link from OP. I was correct either way.

Whether it's a charm and it's mods or whatever is still RNG.

Rune(s), Base item(s), TP and ID scrolls, Potion(s) are the only White items off the top of my head which are not affected by MF.

Wow, @vizzle, you REALLY made it more confusing (and incorrect) than it needed to be.

First off, OP linked the chart in their opening post. Why would you start spewing nonsense off the top of your head without even consulting with the thing being discussed? No, it's not linear for rares.

Two, "Base item(s)" are the only items affected by MF.

iamergo wrote: 3 years ago

Wow, @vizzle, you REALLY made it more confusing (and incorrect) than it needed to be.

First off, OP linked the chart in their opening post. Why would you start spewing nonsense off the top of your head without even consulting with the thing being discussed? No, it's not linear for rares.

Two, "Base item(s)" are the only items affected by MF.

Bruh, I said MAYBE rare's are. I haven't looked at this image in months.

I will edit my 1 statement about rares. That Rares, Sets, Uniques are non-linear.

Rest of what I said was true guy.

I'll even snippet the dumb graph for you to stare at.

Nothing in it states "Normal" items or Runes so your statement about MF affect White drops is grossly inaccurate.
That's why the line is BLUE. Magic items are BLUE my guy.

Is also why you can run 0mf (I have a lite sorc with 0mf) and still find

Ber's,

Jah's, hell even Uniques.) Don't

Confuse people when YOU don't know what you're talking about.

@vizzle
LMAO You have no clue how MF works, do you? Magic Find doesn't increase the odds of uniques or rares to drop; it affects the chance that a White item gets upgraded to unique → set → rare → magic. So yeah, normal items are the only items affected by MF.

Also, you didn't need to google or post the graph. OP linked it in their first post, and everybody who wanted to contribute to the discussion clicked the link.

For context, a good summary on how items are generated by the game: forums/a-guide-to-basic-terms-of-item-g ... t8350.html

iamergo wrote: 3 years ago

@vizzle
Magic Find doesn't increase the odds of uniques or rares to drop; it affects the chance that a White item gets upgraded to unique → set → rare → magic.

Isn’t this essentially IS increasing the odds of getting uniques and rares to drop that is affectively what % mf does, like u said, give % chance a White item gets converted into other colors, so yeah, in the end %mf does increase uniques and rares to drop…

To be fair there are two things that can never be White but also are affected by MF. Jewels and Gheeds Fortune

iamergo wrote: 3 years ago

@vizzle
LMAO You have no clue how MF works, do you? Magic Find doesn't increase the odds of uniques or rares to drop; it affects the chance that a White item gets upgraded to unique → set → rare → magic. So yeah, normal items are the only items affected by MF.

Also, you didn't need to google or post the graph. OP linked it in their first post, and everybody who wanted to contribute to the discussion clicked the link.

Magic find also increases the odds that items that cannot be White- rings, jewels, amulets, charms- will roll unique, set, or rare (obviously there's only one charm that magic find helps you find more of,

Gheed's Fortune).

Basically, the game picks an item type to drop first, then it rolls on that item to determine the rarity. When that rarity is rolled, that's the only time magic find takes effect. This is why magic find does not increase the odds of getting rings, amulets, charms, or jewels (or any other item class for that matter, like runes). Because it only makes whatever drops more likely to be of a higher rarity.

Magic find also does not affect the desirability/"goodness" of the affixes on a rare/magic item. That's influenced by the monster level. You won't find more amulets with +2 to class skills if you have more magic find, for example. I just wanted to make sure that point was made in case someone starts confusing what is meant by "magic find increasing the 'quality' of the items found".

tatarjj wrote: 3 years ago

Magic find also increases the odds that items that cannot be White- rings, jewels, amulets, charms- will roll unique, set, or rare (obviously there's only one charm that magic find helps you find more of,

Gheed's Fortune).

Basically, the game picks an item type to drop first, then it rolls on that item to determine the rarity. When that rarity is rolled, that's the only time magic find takes effect. This is why magic find does not increase the odds of getting rings, amulets, charms, or jewels (or any other item class for that matter, like runes).

Good point! Items that are at least magic are affected too.

tatarjj wrote: 3 years ago

Basically, the game picks an item type to drop first, then it rolls on that item to determine the rarity. When that rarity is rolled, that's the only time magic find takes effect. This is why magic find does not increase the odds of getting rings, amulets, charms, or jewels (or any other item class for that matter, like runes). Because it only makes whatever drops more likely to be of a higher rarity.

Thanks, this really clears things up a lot.

So if the difference between 400 MF and 250 MF is about a 10/9 ratio, in a way, it's actually even less than that, if you are talking in terms of "generic Wealth" (ie, any "good" item that can be traded; so valuable uniques that depend on MF, but also quality charms/skiller gcs, Keys, runes, etc; and none of those appear to depend on MF).

Teebling wrote: 3 years ago

For context, a good summary on how items are generated by the game: forums/a-guide-to-basic-terms-of-item-g ... t8350.html

I just want to point out that this guide only explains basic concepts that are a part of item generation, specifically item levels and their interactions with other similar elements, but it doesn't have much to do with what is discussed here (which is a lot more technical).

Snape75 wrote: 3 years ago

Thanks, this really clears things up a lot.

So if the difference between 400 MF and 250 MF is about a 10/9 ratio, in a way, it's actually even less than that, if you are talking in terms of "generic Wealth" (ie, any "good" item that can be traded; so valuable uniques that depend on MF, but also quality charms/skiller gcs, Keys, runes, etc; and none of those appear to depend on MF).

Yeah, and keep in mind any item that drops that isn't white isn't a socketed runeword base. The more magic+ items that drop, the less whites and grey socketed items will drop. Pair that with the fact that your clear speed typically slows when you start pushing high magic find. There could be an argument that not only are you slowing yourself down too much with too much magic find, but you also start losing out on potentially valuable runeword bases as well.