How Do D2 YouTubers Do It?

BillyMaysed wrote: 3 years ago

sonnytai331 wrote: 3 years ago

If it's 4-5K, it would be $120K to $150K (Twitch's payout is 50% of $5 per month). It's actually probably a little lower than that because there's a 15% discount if you give a 3 month commitment.

Nah, that would be if every single sub was a tier 1 sub. so its most likely 2-3x that amount.

sonnytai331 wrote: 3 years ago

Sponsorships: $5K

Most twitch streamers make more from sponsorships than their twitch subs... xD

I've never used Twitch (except to view one-off videos on Reddit) so I didn't see that there were Tier 2 and Tier 3 subs.

It wouldn't be 2-3x. People don't tend to pay more for what is essentially the same product (other than some badges and emojis). I would be extremely surprised if more than 5% of his subs were Tier 2 and 3.

This thread suggests it's more like 1-2% https://www.reddit.com/r/Twitch/comment ... r_2_and_3/

As for the sponsorship $, that's unlikely except for the top, top streamers (in the world, not in D2).

For example, LeBron James and Kevin Durant makes more money from sponsorships than their NBA salary, but I guarantee you that your average NBA starter does not - and it's not even close.

sonnytai331 wrote: 3 years ago

People don't tend to pay more for what is essentially the same product

ive watched hundreds and hundreds of Mrllama's streams and watched donations pour in as well as tons of people subbing and re-subbing at higher tiers, its definitely WAY higher than 5%. Its all guessing for both of us, but its definitely much higher than you're suggesting. He's also making a shit ton from sponsorships. Not millions, but hundreds of thousands, yes. So at bare minimum hes pulling in 400k a year total.

How do you know he’s making a ton from sponsorships? That data obviously won’t be available.

Also just because you see the superfans make donations frequently during his streams doesn’t mean they comprise more than 5%. They may comprise more than 5% of his viewers on any given stream (most of the Tier 1 subs likely only watch occasionally), but not more than 5% of the total sub base.

Sorry for being anal It’s the former management consultant in me.

I hope Llama is making $400K. I watch his YouTube clips semi-frequently and I’m a fan. I’m just not sure the math adds up - but if I’m wrong I’m not going to choose this hill to die on

IMO, just like bloggers and other content creators, the vast majority of streamer income is from sponsorships/affiliates. I'm sure the grind gets old sometimes, but most jobs do.

BillyMaysed wrote: 3 years ago

ive watched hundreds and hundreds of Mrllama's streams and watched donations pour in as well as tons of people subbing and re-subbing at higher tiers, its definitely WAY higher than 5%. Its all guessing for both of us, but its definitely much higher than you're suggesting. He's also making a shit ton from sponsorships. Not millions, but hundreds of thousands, yes. So at bare minimum hes pulling in 400k a year total.

Huh, interesting. I admit I'm not nearly as long-time a Llama fan as you, but I've followed him for a while.... and just based on the stuff I've heard him talk about, I would've guessed <$50K a year personally. I think he only moved out of his parents' place at 30(?), he lives in a small apartment, and his biggest expense was $1k for a very, very old second-hand car? I guess he could just be really frugal, but driving a car THAT beaten-up typically costs you more in the long run than just buying a decent car (not to mention safety etc issues), so it's something that people do when they are really strapped for cash usually.

If he really has 5K subs (I couldn’t find his sub count), then he’s pulling minimum $150K from subs alone, and that’s before accounting for tips and Tier 2 and 3 subs, so it’s definitely not $50K.

How do we know it's 5k, though, and especially over the long term? Sub count is not displayed publicly on Twitch, and there doesn't seem to be any reputable source for it?

I do hope for his sake that he is earning more than $50k a year. It's just that it doesn't feel like it to me from hearing about his life.

Yeah I don’t know, BillyMaysed said that he knew and I took it at face value.

Edit: I do know based on his YouTube views though that’s probably adding around $35K additionally per year.

Anyway, I didn’t mean to single Llama out - I guess he was just the most popular streamer. I was wondering about the D2 Streamers in general.

Didn't twich get hacked last year, with all streamers incomes published?

misaochan wrote: 3 years ago

How do we know it's 5k, though, and especially over the long term? Sub count is not displayed publicly on Twitch, and there doesn't seem to be any reputable source for it?

I do hope for his sake that he is earning more than $50k a year. It's just that it doesn't feel like it to me from hearing about his life.

For MrLlamaSC especially needs to be decently higher than that. Streaming means he is self employed so you have to fully pay 12.4% social security tax, 2.9% medicare tax (on top of federal and possible state taxes). Then you have 0 benefits so 12-20k+ if you want health insurance, no 401 (k), etc.

Which is all relevant because with his schooling background he could have job with benefits making 75k+, so I'd assume he either has been doing well enough streaming or just enjoys it a lot more.

moot11 wrote: 3 years ago

Didn't twich get hacked last year, with all streamers incomes published?

I only saw data for the top 100

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautifu ... om_august/
looks like the calculations are about right!
But only Llama is on the list, cant find any others in the top10k

moot11 wrote: 3 years ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautifu ... om_august/
looks like the calculations are about right!
But only Llama is on the list, cant find any others in the top10k

$318K over two years it seems, so $160K per year.

Throw in ~$35K from YouTube and sponsorships, then he's likely well over $200K.

Pretty good living for him! But much less so for the less popular D2 streamers.

sonnytai331 wrote: 3 years ago

I’ve been curious about this for a long time, just wanted to know what you guys thought: How do Streamers / YouTubers like LlamaSC and Dbrunski do it?

- They clearly put enough time and effort into it that it’s basically a FT job

- But I don’t think the viewer / sub base pays anywhere close to a FT job by North American standards

- By now they’ve probably found every conceivable item and made every conceivable build. How is it not terribly dry and tedious to keep farming the same areas and hunting for the same items over and over and over again for years?

I realize there’s also the possibility these people have family money / are independently wealthy so they can just do whatever, but that still leaves bullet #3. It seems like just a soul-crushing grind.

I watch streamers like Spoonkid and Welyn play rust and tarkov while I code and generally do game dev. It's nice to have something going on in the background. So I think that's a good example of how people keep watching essentially the same content over and over again.

misaochan wrote: 3 years ago

Huh, interesting. I admit I'm not nearly as long-time a Llama fan as you, but I've followed him for a while.... and just based on the stuff I've heard him talk about, I would've guessed <$50K a year personally. I think he only moved out of his parents' place at 30(?), he lives in a small apartment, and his biggest expense was $1k for a very, very old second-hand car? I guess he could just be really frugal, but driving a car THAT beaten-up typically costs you more in the long run than just buying a decent car (not to mention safety etc issues), so it's something that people do when they are really strapped for cash usually.

From what I recall he had a IT database admin job and somehow parlayed that into a data science role. He had some type of CS education. It didn't sound like a hardcore engineering degree but I could be wrong. Data science jobs typically start at six figures.

I suspect that you'd want to be frugal if you're jettisoning a reliable salary for the vagaries of Twitch income. He has to cover his own health and retirement benefits now, and full-time streaming for a number of years will leave a hole in your resume that can make it tricky to get back into normal job market if it doesn't work out. Though IT experience is perhaps more resilient in some respects.

If I ever had the guts and inclination to go this route I'd definitely want to take the Money Moustache route (super frugal living to prepare for early retirement).

Personality is also a factor. I'd expect someone who spends most of their time playing D2 to not be dropping lots of money at the

Club. I've known people making 200k+ who drive beat-up old cars and live frugally, though it seems less common now than the reverse, people living beyond their means.

Yeah, makes sense. I personally disagree with the beat-up car, as I strongly feel it costs more in the long run - I had one ages ago as a poor student and it was quickly racking up $1k a year in maintenance and parts alone, we saved so much money when we could afford to replace it with a decent one.

But good point re: the other costs, especially health insurance since he lives in the US. I hadn't thought about that since we have universal healthcare here...

Dude is a fantastic streamer, so I'd hate to see him leave the scene due to financial issues.

misaochan wrote: 3 years ago

Yeah, makes sense. I personally disagree with the beat-up car, as I strongly feel it costs more in the long run - I had one ages ago as a poor student and it was quickly racking up $1k a year in maintenance and parts alone, we saved so much money when we could afford to replace it with a decent one.

But good point re: the other costs, especially health insurance since he lives in the US. I hadn't thought about that since we have universal healthcare here...

Dude is a fantastic streamer, so I'd hate to see him leave the scene due to financial issues.

I'm sure he's got another 5-10 years minimum, depending on how popular Diablo 4 lasts. If Diablo 4's popularity lasts as long as Diablo 2, he could literally do this until retirement, which is pretty crazy, but it's also a very big if.

Sekraan wrote: 3 years ago

It depends. Twitch is a winner-takes-most affair, like most sites with user-created content. So the top creators do quite well, the next tier may be struggling, and it's a hobby with a little remuneration for everyone else.

Yeah, and it's not limited to websites with user-created content. All fields are essentially like this. Most authors sell (essentially) no books. Most voice actors make no money. Most musicians sell no albums and make no money off their music. Most artists are unknown. Most restaurants fail. Most athletes never become pro. Most male chimpanzees don't get mates. Something like the top 20% of stars in the universe contain like 80% of the mass. It's really bizarre how universal Pareto distribution seems to be, and video content creation is definitely no different. Pick the field, pick the interest, success begets success.

Beardozer wrote: 3 years ago

Sekraan wrote: 3 years ago

It depends. Twitch is a winner-takes-most affair, like most sites with user-created content. So the top creators do quite well, the next tier may be struggling, and it's a hobby with a little remuneration for everyone else.

Yeah, and it's not limited to websites with user-created content. All fields are essentially like this. Most authors sell (essentially) no books. Most voice actors make no money. Most musicians sell no albums and make no money off their music. Most artists are unknown. Most restaurants fail. Most athletes never become pro. Most male chimpanzees don't get mates. Something like the top 20% of stars in the universe contain like 80% of the mass. It's really bizarre how universal Pareto distribution seems to be, and video content creation is definitely no different. Pick the field, pick the interest, success begets success.

Yep. It never ceases to amaze me how consistently Pareto Principle applies.

That said, the frame of reference matters quite a bit when it comes to professions. The bottom 80% are still making enough to put food on the table in many salaried professions. The income floor is zero for content creators on Twitch and YouTube and the like!

Edit: Today I learned that there's a runeword called Principle. Thank you forum auto-link script