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18 replies   7869 views
2

Description

Q for bowazons re.
Strafe
and
Windforce
:

which do u recommend-

80 ias -> 5+(3)+7, can use Fortitude
120 ias -> 4+(2)+7, must use Treachery or Hustle

thoughts appreciated...
5

Can be used to make Runewords:

7
Q for bowazons re.
Strafe
and
Windforce
:

which do u recommend-

80 ias -> 5+(3)+7, can use Fortitude
120 ias -> 4+(2)+7, must use Treachery or Hustle

thoughts appreciated...
7
User avatar

Schnorki 3813Moderator

PC
Largely a matter of taste/playstyle and the rest of your gear but generally speaking, IF you go for the higher breakpoints, 4 socket armors with ed/ias jewels are your best friend. Not Treachery and the like.
7
User avatar

marl71 126

Americas PC
Can't you hit 120 ias with a 45 ias
Helm
? 35 on the bow, 40 gloves and ammy, 45
Helm
= 120. Early on you can use mavina's, then work up to a jeweler's
Tiara
.
7
User avatar

Schnorki 3813Moderator

PC
Either works, presenting their own respective benefits/costs.
7
OP
was planning on
Atma
's ammy, but i'm only lvl 12., lots of time 2 ponder
thnx !
7
to get IAS for
Windforce
is easy:

socket
Windforce
with
Shael
and you get 40% IAS on weapon, LoH + highlord and its done

btw
Strafe
with
Hydra Bow
requires only 80 for fastest attack Also I would recommend
Atma
amulet and you can go
Helm
: andy visage
Stealskull
(need 15IAS jewel) or maavina
Helm


or if u want any gloves you can get jewelers
Tiara
with 45IAS, with
Windforce
with
Shael
it would be enough.

btw if u go physical bowa, not to go Fortitude is imho bad choice. Unless u plan to use bowa for specific location where u know you wont need 300% dmg from Fortitude.

check my other trades: member/The%20Flash/
my free items: simple t4t is fine with me :) what you pay is up to you
free anni to my WTS
LF
Ral
,
Nef
, keys, pame, pruby, jewel
7
regarding bowa: I have made my first proper bowa with BiS this season.

for me best build is:
https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/r1010633

reason why I chose not to use highest dmg bow in game (=
Windforce
).
Windforce
has lower AR (thats not much of an issue), no resists and besides dmg it has nothing else + if you wanna maximize your dmg output - you need your merc to wear Faith.

And believe me, your merc will always be too far from you or dead (I have been using my bowa to kill dclone, and merc barely survived) so you wouldnt be shooting with highest IAS when u need it the most. Unless u go Enigma to reposition your merc, but then you lower your dmg.

Me Faith vs me
Windforce
, dmg is a bit lower, but nothing drastic and the fact whenever I shoot its fastest attack speed possible. This fact makes it imho way better than to have higher dmg and rely on your merc.

If you use
Windforce
,
Atma
's amulet totally make bosses and or immunes disappear :)

Tip: with bowa you need maximize your dmg output at any cost. If something gives you a bit more dmg, then its better item. No vitality !
2%mana or life leech is really enough to stay alive and not drinking.

check my other trades: member/The%20Flash/
my free items: simple t4t is fine with me :) what you pay is up to you
free anni to my WTS
LF
Ral
,
Nef
, keys, pame, pruby, jewel
7
OP
hmmmm i use the warren caluulator

https://warren1001.github.io/IAS_Calculator/

which shows faster possible breakpoints. i'll test it when i reach lvl 65.
ill prob go fort
Atma
80ias....
and sharp charms!
7
krathkor wrote: 1 year ago
hmmmm i use the warren caluulator

https://warren1001.github.io/IAS_Calculator/

which shows faster possible breakpoints. i'll test it when i reach lvl 65.
ill prob go fort
Atma
80ias....
and sharp charms!
hmm thats interesting and it seems its probably right.

according to website I use https://planetdiablo.eu/diablo2/calcs/s ... nglish.php . With my
Fanaticism
lvl 14 I should need 18IAS for fastest shooting. I took off some of my IAS items (with all my gear its 95IAS) to get enough IAS according to your website. And its breakpoints seems right. There was difference when I had 0IAS 20IAS 40IAS and 50IAS.
Breakpoint seemed right according to ur page.
Lucky for me I have 95IAS so it makes no difference for me so I wont have to change gear :)

I also noticed other discrepencies in favour of website I use:
so imho its best to check both websites and try to get better criteria.

So yeah go for 4+(2)+6 difference is noticeable

check my other trades: member/The%20Flash/
my free items: simple t4t is fine with me :) what you pay is up to you
free anni to my WTS
LF
Ral
,
Nef
, keys, pame, pruby, jewel
7
If you want, add me on bnet and I can be "your A1 merc" providing you
Fanaticism
aura to see its difference. Faith is kinda expensive RW, so it can be better to see it with ur eyes before you buy/make Faith

120IAS gear:
bow - 40
highlord - 20
gloves - 20
Helm
jewelers
Tiara
3x15jewel - 45
Belt
- 0
Fortitude - 0
------------------------------
=125

or you can go
bow - 40
Atma
- 0
gloves - 0
Helm
: andy visage + jewel - 35
Belt
- 0
Treachery - 45
------------------------------
=120

with some MF
bow - 40
Atma
- 0
gloves - 20
Helm
: steelskull +
Ist
- 10
Belt
Goldwrap
- 10
Treachery - 45
------------------------------
=125

regarding my 3 options:
1) Fortitude gives you most consistent dmg
2) Treachery with andy gives you resists and a lot of dmg (30str on andy = 30dex = 30%dmg) +
Atma
- andy and
Windforce
gives you high dual leech
3) 105% MF on
Helm
+ 30goldwrap + with SC you can get easily to 200%MF

if u use
Atma
amulet, you dont need
Magic Arrow
to deal with immunes.

check my other trades: member/The%20Flash/
my free items: simple t4t is fine with me :) what you pay is up to you
free anni to my WTS
LF
Ral
,
Nef
, keys, pame, pruby, jewel
7
User avatar

uuee 51

Europe PC
Back in LoD 2fpa
Strafe
was bugged (only shown on clientside) thats why old calcs doesn't show those breakpoints. Seems like they've fixed it.

If you really want to use
Atma
's, maybe the following setup makes sense:

Fortitude
mavina's
Diadem
@ias -45ias
Windforce
@
Shael
-40ias
nos coil
Belt
-10ias
Atma
's amu
Raven Frost

some fire+light res rare ring
IK
Boots

IK gloves -25ias (set bonus)

=120 ias
I'd pump points into
Pierce
this way since you lose
Razortail
7
User avatar

mhlg 1244

Americas PC
Me Faith vs me
Windforce
, dmg is a bit lower, but nothing drastic and the fact whenever I shoot its fastest attack speed possible. This fact makes it imho way better than to have higher dmg and rely on your merc.


When we look at the rated damage of a Smiter the stats tell us that we have less than 3K DPS, and yet a smiter can kill a D-Clone in under 30 seconds. A number of people use Faith mercenaries to provide a
Windforce
with
Fanaticism
. I tried it using a Grand Matron with lvl 15
Fanaticism
, but even with that wielding the Faith was better than a Faith merc and
Windforce
. Yes the
Windforce
reports higher damage but the Faith will clear an area faster and more efficiently. Now couple the Faith with a Pride merc, Fortitude armor,
Andariel
's, LOH, and
Atma
's and you have a winning combo. Yes I still carry my
Windforce
, and I always will on a Zon build. If not for my
Windforce
I wouldn't have my Faith. One last thought. I've been comparison testing
Atma
's on my Faith and Windorce and I've concluded that
Atma
's amplfied damage procs faster on Faith and more often. My suspicions are that the Faith is a little faster firing and the knockback on the
Windforce
is interfering a little with the frequency a target is struck, and
Atma
's has a 5% Chance To Cast Level 2
Amplify Damage
On Striking, and if it's not consistently striking then it's not procing.

Oh right! According to online calculators,
Windforce
breakpoints with
Strafe
are about 80%, everything else is firing at standard speed.

Please post offer in item trade before adding me on Bnet, I'm in EST time zone (E Coast U.S)
7
User avatar

Schnorki 3813Moderator

PC
Keep in mind that your average smiter gets most of his dclone dmg from crushing blow and not his raw damage.
Zons tend to have far less crushing blow to begin with and on top of that, ranged CB only does half of what a smiter's CB does.
Plus the smiter literally cannot miss with his CB so..that helps.

Now that Hustle got wrecked, the Faith vs. WF debate is doomed to continue for Eternity (I'll refrain from starting it over again here). But realistically, they're close enough together either way to where one should rly just go with whichever you find more fun to play. Then again, that should be the rule for everything imo.
7
User avatar

mhlg 1244

Americas PC
Now that Hustle got wrecked, the Faith vs. WF debate is doomed to continue for Eternity (I'll refrain from starting it over again here). But realistically, they're close enough together either way to where one should rly just go with whichever you find more fun to play. Then again, that should be the rule for everything imo.

For me it wasn't a debate so much as a tier. You're unlikely to get a Faith unless you first have a
Windforce
, and once you have the runes to make a Faith then you're subject to the laws of chance. Will you get a good roll or a so so roll? Unfortunately I never had the chance to compare
Atma
's with Hustle and
Windforce
to see how quickly Amplify procs. I'm convinced that it procs quicker with a Faith than it does with a
Windforce
, and if that's true, then why? In fact it often procs multiple times while attacking a single mob. Still like many, I'm a longtime
Windforce
groupie, after all I now have 5 of them and just one Faith. :D

Edit: I only used the smiter as an analogy, not as a direct comparison.

Please post offer in item trade before adding me on Bnet, I'm in EST time zone (E Coast U.S)
7
User avatar

Schnorki 3813Moderator

PC
Generally speaking, a Faith build tends to go for attack speed while a proper WF build is happy with 9 frames, otherwise going for all-out dmg per hit (which is why Faith mercs for WF never made sense to me..all that does is indeed make WF a worse alternative to Faith as you're giving up the main strength of it to attempt to do what Faith was built for - a solid WF build gets far more DPS out of Pride/might than out of a Faith merc).

So yeah,
Atma
's will proc more often with Faith. Not only will it proc quicker in terms of time because faster attack speed = quicker procs but it will also proc more often per mob because lower dmg per hit = mob survives more hits = more chances to proc per mob.
7
User avatar

mhlg 1244

Americas PC
My Faith also clears mobs faster than my
Windforce
even though my
Windforce
has considerably higher DPS. That could be the result of faster equals more hits in a shorter time frame, and when
Atma
's procs everything goes down. Another point I've considered is that knockback interferes with
Atma
's hit rate and therefore
Atma
's proc rate.

Please post offer in item trade before adding me on Bnet, I'm in EST time zone (E Coast U.S)
7
User avatar

Schnorki 3813Moderator

PC
Also quite possibly (likely) a matter of lvl + gear.

The higher your level, the higher WF's base damage. The better (and more dmg per hit focused) your gear, the higher the true gain from said increased base damage. WF doesn't really shine unless you really build towards the dmg per hit. But if/when you do, things like
Atma
's procs aren't even a concern cuz..well, nothing lives that long. :p
7
User avatar

mhlg 1244

Americas PC
Schnorki wrote: 1 year ago
Also quite possibly (likely) a matter of lvl + gear.

The higher your level, the higher WF's base damage. The better (and more dmg per hit focused) your gear, the higher the true gain from said increased base damage. WF doesn't really shine unless you really build towards the dmg per hit. But if/when you do, things like
Atma
's procs aren't even a concern cuz..well, nothing lives that long. :p
My Zon is level 95, so at this point I can't see damage level being a factor, because four more levels isn't going to increase my
Windforce
damage by that much. I think Faith's IAS, high attack rating, and Ignore Target's Defense play a major role in its effectiveness in clear speed and in procing
Atma
's amplified damage. I realize we aren't talking a huge difference between the bows, but there is a difference. If you're interested I trust you enough to lend you my Faith so that you can test it. I'm guessing our gear, except for charms, is largely the same so if you're interested just say when and we'll make it happen. I know you love testing so here's one for you to give a go. :D

Note: I'm willing to jump in and record a video if you're interested.

Please post offer in item trade before adding me on Bnet, I'm in EST time zone (E Coast U.S)
7
User avatar

Schnorki 3813Moderator

PC
Yeah, at 95 the level doesn't affect too much anymore, true.

Thanks for the vote of trust. Not needed though, I've (extensively) tested both, Faith and WF in a number of different build variations and towards optimization for each one.
I never rely solely on math telling me WF is (barely) better in raw dmg per hit and DPS, I always follow that up with live testing which confirmed the same.

But again (as confirmed by both math + testing), the difference is really quite small when both are fully optimized so either way, I still say stick with whatever is more fun to you.

Hell, if my RNG picker had told me to roll a zon for S3, that one would've actually ended up with a Faith as well (albeit solely because Hustle got wrecked).
For the NL/main one though..she'll never give up her WF.

Side note:
I wouldn't count on our gear being largely the same actually. After 20 years of optimizing, most of my chars tend to differ quite significantly from the norm in some
Key
pieces.
9

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