What fuels the online item economy?

TL:DR

Context: I've only ever played Diablo 2 as Solo Self Found. I want help understanding BNET item economy.

Question: are bots integral to online economy?

Full:

Not counting original D2:LoD, I've played for a bit more than 1.5 years of resurrected upon release. Now RotW got me back to the game (I'm addicted, help!)

Playing SSF means you won't be able to acquire the items you desire through trading, which means you have to adapt to what you drop. That, for me, is one of it's charms.
Yeah, you can open any guide and look at the Best-In-Slot Items, but most of the time you won't have all of it. And when you finally drop one of them, it is a great feeling. You literally scream!
When RotW, you can only imagine how happy I was of being a hoarder and have a random +4 all skills Arioc's Needle in my stash! Almost became Charsi Food!

In this 1.5+ years of playing (which mostly consisted of end-game farming) I've even managed to find some great, highly coveted end-game unique, not even including set items. Just to mention some highlights:

• Griffon's Eye
• Raven Frost
• War Traveler
• Dracul's Grasp
• Mara's Kaleidoscope
• Nosferatu's Coil
• Verdungo's Hearty Cord
• Gheed's Wager
• Homunculus
• Titan's Revenge
• Thunderstroke
• Lacerator
• Skin of the Vipermagi
• Harlequin Crest
• Kira's Guardian
• Andariel's Visage
• Latent Cold Rupture
• Gheed's Fortune
• The Reaper's Toll
• Eschuta's Temper

Now, the highest rune I've ever dropped was an Mal. Not even an Ist! After countless Countess runs.

I know RNG is a fickle beast. Yet, the difference in Unique drops vs High-rune drops is very significant.
Yes, some people just get lucky and drop like a Ber and a Jah in the same session. I know some people do literal tens of thousands of runs.

But realistically, how often does that happen? When that happen that person is very likely to post it somewhere (canonically, here ). Like @seras that dropped an Perf Eth Arioc's Needle 2h ago! (Congrats!)

But that's just the people that get lucky beeing "vocal" about it. So we might have a bias to think "look at the amount of people getting nice stuff, those must drop somewhat reasonably frequently for someone who plays a lot".

The amount of High-runes present in the online market seens very odd to me as a SSF player. The amount of people that have Enigma, Infinity, BotD, etc seems way too high, even if those Runewords are still somewhat rare. I've seen people complete their Runeword Chronicle online (or at least claiming to). And RotW wasn't out for even a month! Last Wish alone uses 6 high runes.

I do visit diablo2.io a lot an read a lot of the item pages, so out of curiosity I keep an eye on the sales histories.

Just to point some things that caught my attention:

• A Perf Eth Arioc's Needle beeing sold for 8 Jah runes. Yes, it is literally the most powerful weapon for the current most powerful build but still...Who have 8 Jah runes?? If I drop a single one in my lifetime playing the game I'll consider myself lucky.
• People are paying Ber, Jah and Zod (!) runes for 3x3 Keysets! In one week I've farmed like 3 entire 3x3 keysets. And I didn't even try that hard.
• 3 Jah and 1 Lo for a Griffon's Eye
• 10 Perfect Gems for a Titan's Revenge
• 1 Jah for a Perfect Visceratuant / 1 Ber for a Perfect Visceratuant. I know perfects are rares, but it is only a Enhanced Defense difference (which is probably minor from a almost perfect one) for a very niche shield.
• 2 Perfect Gems for a Nagelring. Yeah, I did drop some good 4 or 5 of those. But still, 2 PGems...
• Eschuta's Temper for 15 Perfect Gems! Another for 27 Junk Jewels. Must have been bad rolls, but even then...

I was impressed at how many nice itens you can buy sometimes even with just Perfect Gems! I mean, PGems are one of the most linear and consistent drops. And even when trading items for runes, the amount of High Runes flying around seems to high.

Again, there will be the lucky people that drop 2 high-runes in a row. There are the Youtubers that play hours per day as their job. But when you take into account the rareness of those runes, I still feel like there are way more of those runes around that it should be, especially assuming that a lot of people will not ever see more than a couple of drops in their whole time with the game.

I've got really curious about it.

So I've read about D2 bots since back in the day. Pindlebots, real-money trading bot-powered websites and all kinds of stuff. Are bots still a thing? Do they contribute to the items availability in online play? Does my impression as an SSF player of online play makes sense?

It's 4 years and counting of Wealth, from both bots and players, in one non-ladder game.

The inflation is real.

If you want "real" values, try ladder. You will be hard-pressed to find anyone who has more than one Jah to rub together, let alone one Jah/ Ber at all.

I think another part is that the value of items differs drastically from one person to another. A perfect Griffon's Eye might be worth multiple Jah runes for some, but it is worth -4 inventory spaces if I don't plan on playing a lightning-based character. Someone's Soul Drainer might be a burden on their mule but it's worth all the Ist runes I have. I have no need for a 20/20 Jav torch, so I will sell it for as low as a few mid runes if nobody wants to call its "true" price.

This discrepancy in value "generates" a lot of the Wealth in ladder trade, I think.

3/20/20 dmg/ar/life small charms sell for something like 20+ Jah lol

The current craze will die down and prices on non ladder will slowly drop again. Peak has already passed. There will be masses of items coming to non ladder from this season due to increased amount of players. Plus who knows what will change going forward - I hope the Latent Sunder drop rate.

Non ladder what is it over four years of accumulated items (included everything from the past ladder seasons) no wonder it's cooked.

Ladder prices look good if you are only looking at them from a rune perspective. The prices are all set elsewhere and everywhere else follows.

TimeSlayer wrote: 5 months ago

3/20/20 dmg/ar/life small charms sell for something like 20+ Jah lol

I remember it being like 120 Jah a year ago. Or something crazy like that. Worth maybe half of it now, based on offers here? Guess runes disappeared or people tried offloading all their 32020s all at once and flooded the "market".

Only taken a hit in terms of the amount of Jah that they are worth. Reason is that the value of Jah has increased.

Actual value has not really decreased that much if you look at what you can buy or trade with them.

Queegon wrote: 5 months ago

TimeSlayer wrote: 5 months ago

3/20/20 dmg/ar/life small charms sell for something like 20+ Jah lol

I remember it being like 120 Jah a year ago. Or something crazy like that. Worth maybe half of it now, based on offers here? Guess runes disappeared or people tried offloading all their 32020s all at once and flooded the "market".

dood thats craaaaaaaazy lmao fuk that

crocorinho wrote: 5 months ago

TL:DR

Context: I've only ever played Diablo 2 as Solo Self Found. I want help understanding BNET item economy.

Question: are bots integral to online economy?

Full:

Not counting original D2:LoD, I've played for a bit more than 1.5 years of resurrected upon release. Now RotW got me back to the game (I'm addicted, help!)

Playing SSF means you won't be able to acquire the items you desire through trading, which means you have to adapt to what you drop. That, for me, is one of it's charms.
Yeah, you can open any guide and look at the Best-In-Slot Items, but most of the time you won't have all of it. And when you finally drop one of them, it is a great feeling. You literally scream!
When RotW, you can only imagine how happy I was of being a hoarder and have a random +4 all skills Arioc's Needle in my stash! Almost became Charsi Food!

In this 1.5+ years of playing (which mostly consisted of end-game farming) I've even managed to find some great, highly coveted end-game unique, not even including set items. Just to mention some highlights:

• Griffon's Eye
• Raven Frost
• War Traveler
• Dracul's Grasp
• Mara's Kaleidoscope
• Nosferatu's Coil
• Verdungo's Hearty Cord
• Gheed's Wager
• Homunculus
• Titan's Revenge
• Thunderstroke
• Lacerator
• Skin of the Vipermagi
• Harlequin Crest
• Kira's Guardian
• Andariel's Visage
• Latent Cold Rupture
• Gheed's Fortune
• The Reaper's Toll
• Eschuta's Temper

Now, the highest rune I've ever dropped was an Mal. Not even an Ist! After countless Countess runs.

I know RNG is a fickle beast. Yet, the difference in Unique drops vs High-rune drops is very significant.
Yes, some people just get lucky and drop like a Ber and a Jah in the same session. I know some people do literal tens of thousands of runs.

But realistically, how often does that happen? When that happen that person is very likely to post it somewhere (canonically, here ). Like @seras that dropped an Perf Eth Arioc's Needle 2h ago! (Congrats!)

But that's just the people that get lucky beeing "vocal" about it. So we might have a bias to think "look at the amount of people getting nice stuff, those must drop somewhat reasonably frequently for someone who plays a lot".

The amount of High-runes present in the online market seens very odd to me as a SSF player. The amount of people that have Enigma, Infinity, BotD, etc seems way too high, even if those Runewords are still somewhat rare. I've seen people complete their Runeword Chronicle online (or at least claiming to). And RotW wasn't out for even a month! Last Wish alone uses 6 high runes.

I do visit diablo2.io a lot an read a lot of the item pages, so out of curiosity I keep an eye on the sales histories.

Just to point some things that caught my attention:

• A Perf Eth Arioc's Needle beeing sold for 8 Jah runes. Yes, it is literally the most powerful weapon for the current most powerful build but still...Who have 8 Jah runes?? If I drop a single one in my lifetime playing the game I'll consider myself lucky.
• People are paying Ber, Jah and Zod (!) runes for 3x3 Keysets! In one week I've farmed like 3 entire 3x3 keysets. And I didn't even try that hard.
• 3 Jah and 1 Lo for a Griffon's Eye
• 10 Perfect Gems for a Titan's Revenge
• 1 Jah for a Perfect Visceratuant / 1 Ber for a Perfect Visceratuant. I know perfects are rares, but it is only a Enhanced Defense difference (which is probably minor from a almost perfect one) for a very niche shield.
• 2 Perfect Gems for a Nagelring. Yeah, I did drop some good 4 or 5 of those. But still, 2 PGems...
• Eschuta's Temper for 15 Perfect Gems! Another for 27 Junk Jewels. Must have been bad rolls, but even then...

I was impressed at how many nice itens you can buy sometimes even with just Perfect Gems! I mean, PGems are one of the most linear and consistent drops. And even when trading items for runes, the amount of High Runes flying around seems to high.

Again, there will be the lucky people that drop 2 high-runes in a row. There are the Youtubers that play hours per day as their job. But when you take into account the rareness of those runes, I still feel like there are way more of those runes around that it should be, especially assuming that a lot of people will not ever see more than a couple of drops in their whole time with the game.

I've got really curious about it.

So I've read about D2 bots since back in the day. Pindlebots, real-money trading bot-powered websites and all kinds of stuff. Are bots still a thing? Do they contribute to the items availability in online play? Does my impression as an SSF player of online play makes sense?

What fuels the online item economy?

Greed!

Hehe, that i get a rare & perfectly rolled item literally never happens. 99,9% of the time the game is making fun of me ( like rolling +1 in a Faith GMT) - which is why i was quite happy to post the Arioc's.
I'm also SSF bnet player, but trade very rarely for some stuff - or during ladders to get my Enigma.
I didn't have a high rune drop in weeks, even though i played a lot more than usual, so its the same for me when i look at the market.
Its still the bots in p8 games or chest runs that find most of the runes & good stuff. In the 2000s people already used pindle bots 24/7 with multiple cd keys & virtual machines, so i guess with these day's hardware & easily accessible servers / ips they have a lot more sessions running and are way more effective.

Knappogue wrote: 5 months ago

Queegon wrote: 5 months ago

TimeSlayer wrote: 5 months ago

3/20/20 dmg/ar/life small charms sell for something like 20+ Jah lol

I remember it being like 120 Jah a year ago. Or something crazy like that. Worth maybe half of it now, based on offers here? Guess runes disappeared or people tried offloading all their 32020s all at once and flooded the "market".

20/5s have taken a massive hit too

The thing I know earlier is that people sell all their 3/20/20 in exchange to 3/15-20/20 or simply more Jah.

That is because the new system will allow charm craft only once more. So people want to max their chance to get best roll. Probably sell 1 perfect in exchange of 10 okay and fill up all storage with similar thing.

And today , that craft system is not release...

That's the reason I know for top charm drop value.

you are right, I only see that price change in RotW, I dont have those charm 1 year ago.

The thing a while ago, I see it drop 3 Jah within a week . I dont know the price today , didnt follow price change.
But break huge charm value into different things can be good idea.
Like perfect ring , perfect pk suit. Eth rare pb, runes, fg, very special tournament items....

Knappogue wrote: 5 months ago

I've sold perfect items for stupid prices. Especially low level ones. Perfect Pelta Lunata for Ber. Perfect Mav Gloves for Jah. These are not for functional use, but for collectors; some people have a grail for perfect rolled items. Low level items that people don't really pick up go for ridiculous prices. Most people don't know the value of certain perfect rolled items so they never pick them up. Supply vs. demand.

Vidala Boots
perfect Eth sup Dimensional Blade
Natalya
tragul

Actually , there are some there, the problem is demand unstable, the need is tiny and the supply is almost 0.

The other world is Lem upgrade type

Heavenly Garb , if perfect roll, it can price in Jah.

Damn looks like I sold a +4 Arioc's Needle for 1 Key of Terror a year ago xD

justinman114 wrote: 5 months ago

Damn looks like I sold a +4 Arioc's Needle for 1 Key of Terror a year ago xD

Or consider all those 4 OS Eth. Thunder Maul you might have found and did not even care to pick up

crocorinho wrote: 5 months ago

The amount of High-runes present in the online market seens very odd to me as a SSF player. The amount of people that have Enigma, Infinity, BotD, etc seems way too high, even if those Runewords are still somewhat rare. I've seen people complete their Runeword Chronicle online (or at least claiming to). And RotW wasn't out for even a month! Last Wish alone uses 6 high runes.

I don´t know for sure, but in my estimation 99% of high runes in current NL are the result of bot farms.

I play D2R since mid of 2024 with my sons (SC NL) but I am surely a casual player (on average I suspect 1-2 hours per day). Besides Tyrael's Might I have now found every TC87 item multiple times and I even found all runes in the game, including Zod (3 Jah, 2 Ber, 2 Cham and a few Sur, Lo and Ohm as well - heck, I even once found Jah + Ber in a single Chaos TZ run ). Am I exceptionally lucky? I don´t know. But I try to farm very efficiently (e.g. when I have 1 hour in the evening to play I wait until I get a good TZ, sometimes login my sons accounts, too to get at least pl3 etc.)

Btw, I have no exact records, but I suppose I have thrown away at least two or three Eth. Arioc's Needle (not counting those I did not even bother picking up)