Hello!
I just wanted to provide some Insight and make a suggestion on something I have spotted lately and that is people utilizing the perfect tag on near perfect items they are putting up for trade. It is very understandable that there is minimal difference between a perfect and a 1 or 2 point off perfect item. However, in the context of the value that is traded for these items, it is very different. A lot of people like myself look to trade history to properly assess what is trading for an offered item. When you see a perfect tag, you initially think that that is a full max roll. Over time, this in itself could skew the true value of what is being traded in people's eyes. Another issue that could come up is oversight. You see a perfect tag, you drop an offer, and you could get an item that is not what you thought it was. Yes, this could be avoided with some extra vigilance, but still it could happen. I have even seen people retract offers because they realized the item was not actually a max roll. This is a waste of time for both parties. My suggestion is that we add an extra tag, perhaps it could be a "Near Perfect" or "1-2 Off Perfect" tag. Something like that. I really think that it would help people have extra clarity into past and current trade activity.
O 'Near Perfect' Tag, LF Your Thoughts!
-NiceDrink
15
replies
1190 views
Description
Hello!
I just wanted to provide some Insight and make a suggestion on something I have spotted lately and that is people utilizing the perfect tag on near perfect items they are putting up for trade. It is very understandable that there is minimal difference between a perfect and a 1 or 2 point off perfect item. However, in the context of the value that is traded for these items, it is very different. A lot of people like myself look to trade history to properly assess what is trading for an offered item. When you see a perfect tag, you initially think that that is a full max roll. Over time, this in itself could skew the true value of what is being traded in people's eyes. Another issue that could come up is oversight. You see a perfect tag, you drop an offer, and you could get an item that is not what you thought it was. Yes, this could be avoided with some extra vigilance, but still it could happen. I have even seen people retract offers because they realized the item was not actually a max roll. This is a waste of time for both parties. My suggestion is that we add an extra tag, perhaps it could be a "Near Perfect" or "1-2 Off Perfect" tag. Something like that. I really think that it would help people have extra clarity into past and current trade activity.
O 'Near Perfect' Tag, LF Your Thoughts!
-NiceDrink
I just wanted to provide some Insight and make a suggestion on something I have spotted lately and that is people utilizing the perfect tag on near perfect items they are putting up for trade. It is very understandable that there is minimal difference between a perfect and a 1 or 2 point off perfect item. However, in the context of the value that is traded for these items, it is very different. A lot of people like myself look to trade history to properly assess what is trading for an offered item. When you see a perfect tag, you initially think that that is a full max roll. Over time, this in itself could skew the true value of what is being traded in people's eyes. Another issue that could come up is oversight. You see a perfect tag, you drop an offer, and you could get an item that is not what you thought it was. Yes, this could be avoided with some extra vigilance, but still it could happen. I have even seen people retract offers because they realized the item was not actually a max roll. This is a waste of time for both parties. My suggestion is that we add an extra tag, perhaps it could be a "Near Perfect" or "1-2 Off Perfect" tag. Something like that. I really think that it would help people have extra clarity into past and current trade activity.
O 'Near Perfect' Tag, LF Your Thoughts!
-NiceDrink
Can be used to make Runewords:
This topic has been debated into oblivion.
feedback/close-to-perfect-roll-button-t1106171.html
forums/on-the-perfect-roll-tag-t958234.html
Its come up again in semi-recent times but I can't find those topics anymore. I think because they were off-topic tangents buried within unrelated topics.
However the two linked posts above pretty much cover it all. Essentially there is too much open to interpretation and too many items have multiple variables where even a 'near' perfect or '1-2' off perfect can't be clearly defined. And even if an a tag was implemented, nothing would stop people from abusing it, like what happens now.
feedback/close-to-perfect-roll-button-t1106171.html
forums/on-the-perfect-roll-tag-t958234.html
Its come up again in semi-recent times but I can't find those topics anymore. I think because they were off-topic tangents buried within unrelated topics.
However the two linked posts above pretty much cover it all. Essentially there is too much open to interpretation and too many items have multiple variables where even a 'near' perfect or '1-2' off perfect can't be clearly defined. And even if an a tag was implemented, nothing would stop people from abusing it, like what happens now.
Yeah I definitely agree that the biggest hole to poke in this is the differences in the total range of rolls. But abuse can happen either way for sure with or without and extra tag. But I do believe an arbitrary amount like a 1 point off tag would help. Otherwise the only other option SHOULD be to reserve 'Perfect' for only truly perfect rolls. However, if we have a 'near perfect' tag it automatically calls for a potential buyer that its not perfect. It calls for further investigation to see just how near perfect it is. For that reason I think it would still help even the tag has wiggle room.Knappogue wrote: 3 weeks ago This topic has been debated into oblivion.
feedback/close-to-perfect-roll-button-t1106171.html
forums/on-the-perfect-roll-tag-t958234.html
Its come up again in semi-recent times but I can't find those topics anymore. I think because they were off-topic tangents buried within unrelated topics.
However the two linked posts above pretty much cover it all. Essentially there is too much open to interpretation and too many items have multiple variables where even a 'near' perfect or '1-2' off perfect can't be clearly defined. And even if an a tag was implemented, nothing would stop people from abusing it, like what happens now.
While i don't entirely disagree with you, there's huge problems involved in regards to definitions.NiceDrink wrote: 3 weeks ago
Yeah I definitely agree that the biggest hole to poke in this is the differences in the total range of rolls. But abuse can happen either way for sure with or without and extra tag. But I do believe an arbitrary amount like a 1 point off tag would help. Otherwise the only other option SHOULD be to reserve 'Perfect' for only truly perfect rolls. However, if we have a 'near perfect' tag it automatically calls for a potential buyer that its not perfect. It calls for further investigation to see just how near perfect it is. For that reason I think it would still help even the tag has wiggle room.
If the rnd stat is say, bonus to damage %, and the possible range is large, say 50 from best to worst, then a near perfect is easily more than just 1 point off on that.
The difference from having 1 point off from a max of +4 to all skills, is gigantic,.
However, where it gets really bad is when there's multiple rnd stats. If all of them are perfect except one, and that one is 2 points off? What if all of them are 1 off, but a single one is 2 off?
It gets really really difficult to define what's "nearly perfect" because it differs greatly from item to item. You might even need a separate definition for every single item, or even affix, and that's going way into crazyland of more work than its worth.
That is a great point I can see that that tag could get way too complicated for the variation in rolls between different items. At this point I just think Perfect should only be reserved for truly perfect items. That is really the only agreeable solution. If somebody posts something as perfect and its not, then it should be reported.FULCRUM75 wrote: 3 weeks agoWhile i don't entirely disagree with you, there's huge problems involved in regards to definitions.NiceDrink wrote: 3 weeks ago
Yeah I definitely agree that the biggest hole to poke in this is the differences in the total range of rolls. But abuse can happen either way for sure with or without and extra tag. But I do believe an arbitrary amount like a 1 point off tag would help. Otherwise the only other option SHOULD be to reserve 'Perfect' for only truly perfect rolls. However, if we have a 'near perfect' tag it automatically calls for a potential buyer that its not perfect. It calls for further investigation to see just how near perfect it is. For that reason I think it would still help even the tag has wiggle room.
If the rnd stat is say, bonus to damage %, and the possible range is large, say 50 from best to worst, then a near perfect is easily more than just 1 point off on that.
The difference from having 1 point off from a max of +4 to all skills, is gigantic,.
However, where it gets really bad is when there's multiple rnd stats. If all of them are perfect except one, and that one is 2 points off? What if all of them are 1 off, but a single one is 2 off?
It gets really really difficult to define what's "nearly perfect" because it differs greatly from item to item. You might even need a separate definition for every single item, or even affix, and that's going way into crazyland of more work than its worth.
Teebling already defined his 'perfect' tag as a 'perfect' or 'near-perfect'. If you hover over the perfect-roll button when creating a trade you will see the following-text:NiceDrink wrote: 3 weeks ago Yeah I definitely agree that the biggest hole to poke in this is the differences in the total range of rolls.
"Indicates that your item is a 'perfect' or 'very close to perfect' roll. Use wisely, if you claim your item is perfect or near-perfect, and it isn't even close, you'll have a bad time."
The crux of the issue is what you glossed over in your response. "Perfect" is easy to define. "Near-perfect" is 100% subjective. I'll make up an example with a fake item with 4 variable attributes A, B, C, D. Let's assume attribute A is one everyone likes, but the importance of attribute B and C depend on your build.
EXAMPLE 1: You have might a roll where A and B are perfect or near perfect but C and D are low. You list it as perfect or near perfect. Someone comes along with a build needing A and C. They complain that your item is a false near-perfect listing.
Example 2: You have this same item but now A, B, and C are perfect rolls and D is low. You've learned your lesson from example 1 and list it as perfect because now for either build the roll is perfect. A grail collector comes along excited to find a perfect roll of this item only to realize D isn't perfect. More complaining ensues.
There is 'functionally' perfect and 'technically' perfect. Technically perfect is easy to define: ALL rolls are PERFECT. Functionally perfect is completely subjective. Depends on the person, their build, their preferences, etc. Although on the surface it might seem that a 'near perfect' tag would be easy to implement and would solve a lot problems (as much as many of us want this to be true - I also would LOVE a 'functionally near-perfect' tag) the execution of it isn't realistic. If we tried, who gets to decide the definition of 'functionally perfect'? Walking down this path - which we've done many times as a thought exercise - we ALWAYS end up needing a way to list each stat of an item and being able to enter the roll of each stat. Similarly to what Traderie does. However this is not going to happen (at least not that I'm aware of).
Lastly there aren't all that many copies of a single item for sale here. It really doesn't take long to mouse over each trade listing to get a snippit of the rolls. Takes less than a minute usually to see the rolls for all the listings of a specific item. When you find someone who has abused the 'perfect' tag, make a mental note and don't trade with them. That's what I do - use that squelch button! Then if you find a perfect item that isn't listed as such, congratulations! You've found yourself a little treasure!
EDIT: @FULCRUM75 beat me to it
I would call a griffon 20 15 without perfect defense for 'perfect'
Functionally perfect vs technically perfect
I dare say the issue isn't "what does near perfect mean?". The current tag covers exactly that, in addition to actually perfect items. And if they're too far from what could reasonably be called near perfect (and we're made aware), then it gets adjusted accordingly.
The main issue or suggestion here I believe is to essentially split the current tag from "perfect" into "near perfect" and "perfect".
Combined, they would cover the same that is currently covered by just the "perfect" tag but such a split would allow for actual, clear and easy identification of actually perfect items as the "perfect" tag would then be solely for those.
I for one would fully support such a split into two separate tags.
It makes searching easier. It makes it more useful in the price history. And it reduces the confusion created by the current tag.
The main issue or suggestion here I believe is to essentially split the current tag from "perfect" into "near perfect" and "perfect".
Combined, they would cover the same that is currently covered by just the "perfect" tag but such a split would allow for actual, clear and easy identification of actually perfect items as the "perfect" tag would then be solely for those.
I for one would fully support such a split into two separate tags.
It makes searching easier. It makes it more useful in the price history. And it reduces the confusion created by the current tag.
This thread make me think 
Is a superior Weapon with just 15% ed, "perfect" or "almost perfect"? (because it do not roll 3 ar)
In the same way... is a superior armor with just 15% def, "perfect" or "almost perfect"? (because it do not roll a 15% dura)
(I think the are "perfect", in the same way that a magic item with just a prefix or just a suffix may be "perfect")
Is a superior Weapon with just 15% ed, "perfect" or "almost perfect"? (because it do not roll 3 ar)
In the same way... is a superior armor with just 15% def, "perfect" or "almost perfect"? (because it do not roll a 15% dura)
(I think the are "perfect", in the same way that a magic item with just a prefix or just a suffix may be "perfect"
)
For a while: not accepting Ral or Hel; and considering Perfect Skull as a regular Perfect Gems on my trades.
Time Zone: GMT-3
Non-Ladder | Softcore | Expansion
Time Zone: GMT-3
Non-Ladder | Softcore | Expansion
Best way to approach this conundrum IMO would be to refactor the trade engine to permit the entry of multiple stat/value pairs like on Traderie. That would allow people to filter/search/sort for items with exact desired properties and banish this necromantic issue about the 'Perfect' tag forever. Maybe I will attempt this behemoth task next sprint... I was planning to also introduce OCR image text recognition so it would be awesome if the two could be combined (upload picture, Key/value pairs for each stat created automatically requiring only a quick review from user).
I'd call such a Griffon "perf enemy light res" and "perf light skill dmg", but not overall "perfect". The latter would indicate that every stat is perfect.fredkid wrote: 3 weeks ago This thread make me think
Is a superior Weapon with just 15% ed, "perfect" or "almost perfect"? (because it do not roll 3 ar)
In the same way... is a superior armor with just 15% def, "perfect" or "almost perfect"? (because it do not roll a 15% dura)
(I think the are "perfect", in the same way that a magic item with just a prefix or just a suffix may be "perfect"
So, I'd call a 15ed armor "perf ed", but not "perf".
This would be most beneficial for magic, rare, and crafted items to search for specific desired affixes. It would allow for you to remove the perfect tag and never implement a near-perfect tag. For qniques and sets, the issue is people not wanting to view the hover-text for the listing. The juice isn't worth the squeeze there. IMO, adding a near perfect tag would not fix the issue due to users. It would just be another way for users to 'misinterpret' the tags and more people would get annoyed. But I also could be terribly wrong here and maybe splitting the perfect tag into a perfect and near perfect is the fix we all need?Teebling wrote: 3 weeks ago Best way to approach this conundrum IMO would be to refactor the trade engine to permit the entry of multiple stat/value pairs like on Traderie. That would allow people to filter/search/sort for items with exact desired properties and banish this necromantic issue about the 'Perfect' tag forever. Maybe I will attempt this behemoth task next sprint... I was planning to also introduce OCR image text recognition so it would be awesome if the two could be combined (upload picture, Key/value pairs for each stat created automatically requiring only a quick review from user).
I don't know but I'm with you. I'd really like to see this topic die - once and for all.
Alternative could be to add "stars" to the items, each star being a perfect roll. So a full perfect would be for examples 3 stars out of 3 possible perfect rolls on a unique. On a rare ring it could be up to 6. But as the number of variable rolls is not set, it's going to be a mess to code
Main: Necromancer / Second: Assassin / Third: Amazon / Check my stash, my crafts and my many cheap Annihilus
Avoids any possible confusion. Even better.Teebling wrote: 3 weeks ago Best way to approach this conundrum IMO would be to refactor the trade engine to permit the entry of multiple stat/value pairs like on Traderie. That would allow people to filter/search/sort for items with exact desired properties and banish this necromantic issue about the 'Perfect' tag forever. Maybe I will attempt this behemoth task next sprint... I was planning to also introduce OCR image text recognition so it would be awesome if the two could be combined (upload picture, Key/value pairs for each stat created automatically requiring only a quick review from user).
But unlike certain other sites, do differentiate between defense, enhanced defense and +defense correctly please.
Such stars should be calculated automatically based on provided item stats (which Teebling suggested). Otherwise I'm afraid the next issue will be "can I add a star to my trade with 199 ed?".Necrarch wrote: 3 weeks ago Alternative could be to add "stars" to the items, each star being a perfect roll. So a full perfect would be for examples 3 stars out of 3 possible perfect rolls on a unique. On a rare ring it could be up to 6. But as the number of variable rolls is not set, it's going to be a mess to code
Similar pages
-
-
-
On the "Perfect roll" tag
by » » in Forums
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisment
Hide ads
Greetings stranger!
You don't appear to be logged in...Register an account
Start trading, earning trust, and levelling up. Get avatars, likes, bookmarks and more with an account! :)
Support Diablo2.io
You can donate to the site to help support the future of diablo2.io. Donating hides all ads forever.
Latest discussion
Caster (which item) Amulet/Shield/Rings….
GG strafe amazon giveaway
Giveaway: Uber Tristram Smiter (Softcore NON-Ladder)
Giveaway: Make Your Own Build (Softcore NON-Ladder)
The Green Goblin
GG strafe amazon giveaway
Giveaway: Uber Tristram Smiter (Softcore NON-Ladder)
Giveaway: Make Your Own Build (Softcore NON-Ladder)
The Green Goblin
Found a bug or glitch?
If something looks broken please let me know so I can fix it :)
No matches
NiceDrink
1