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Monsters entries brainstorming

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Should bosses be categorised the same way as on Arreat?

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Total votes: 12
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So for the Monster type database entries, here's what I was thinking each relevant column would look like (off the top of my head).

Remember this is what determines how these results are connected to each other, filtered, etc. Some of these columns already exist (and are best re-used to save on space and performance) so will be 'repurposed' for Monsters. Have a look around on similar sites like Arreat or archived Amazon Basin and let me know if you think there are any other types of information we could include for each Monster entry - remember the information must be easy to source and contribute in a standardised format like the rest of the contributions we've seen so far.
  • Name of the Monster (obviously)
  • Meta-type - I was thinking three choices here... 'Monster', 'Super Unique' and 'Boss'. This 'Bosses' meta-type would include superuniques like Griswold, Nihlathak, etc. that are considered 'Bosses' on Arreat Summit, as well as the usual Act Bosses and Ubers.
  • Monster type - This would be a choice between Animal, Undead, and Demon. Besides filtering would allow some automatic relations/future tooling for item damage types in some way.
  • Act - This would be a nice secondary means of grouping/categorisation that makes sense to new and old players alike. So like, the most commonly associated Act of this monster. (Scarabs, Act II, Fallen, Act I, etc.)
  • Variants - Monsters sharing the same model and spell sets. Kind of how 'base' variants of uniques are displayed now for items, and vice versa.
  • Base Stats - These would be several different fields allowing for input of Level, XP given, HP, Attacks etc. etc. etc. (as per Arreat tables) and an instant 'switch' on each page would allow you to switch between the different difficulties' stats. Or would it be better to have three separate entries for each monster, one for each difficulty?
  • Superunique Modifiers - For known super uniques only (think Rakanishu for example) things like 'Lightning Enchanted' and 'Extra Fast'. Basically any of the unique modifiers that spawn on this superunique.
  • Found in Zone - For known super uniques/very common appearances of monsters in specific map zones. For example, Rakanishu always spawning in Stony Field or Lord De Seis in the Chaos Sanctuary. This would allow for some cool auto-relations to be built between the two categories.
  • Treasure Class - For superuniques only (since they have static TC values as they always spawn in the zame alvl for each difficulty).
The 'description' of the monster would be filled in separately by contributors as is the case for items at this time.

So guys, anything else you think would be worthy of a space in the database for monsters? Try to think wide about this - is there any data that would pair up well with other parts of the site, both existing and planned?
Description by Teebling
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Can be used to make Runewords:

7
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Teebling 9734Admin

RotW Warlock Europe PC
So for the Monster type database entries, here's what I was thinking each relevant column would look like (off the top of my head).

Remember this is what determines how these results are connected to each other, filtered, etc. Some of these columns already exist (and are best re-used to save on space and performance) so will be 'repurposed' for Monsters. Have a look around on similar sites like Arreat or archived Amazon Basin and let me know if you think there are any other types of information we could include for each Monster entry - remember the information must be easy to source and contribute in a standardised format like the rest of the contributions we've seen so far.
  • Name of the Monster (obviously)
  • Meta-type - I was thinking three choices here... 'Monster', 'Super Unique' and 'Boss'. This 'Bosses' meta-type would include superuniques like Griswold, Nihlathak, etc. that are considered 'Bosses' on Arreat Summit, as well as the usual Act Bosses and Ubers.
  • Monster type - This would be a choice between Animal, Undead, and Demon. Besides filtering would allow some automatic relations/future tooling for item damage types in some way.
  • Act - This would be a nice secondary means of grouping/categorisation that makes sense to new and old players alike. So like, the most commonly associated Act of this monster. (Scarabs, Act II, Fallen, Act I, etc.)
  • Variants - Monsters sharing the same model and spell sets. Kind of how 'base' variants of uniques are displayed now for items, and vice versa.
  • Base Stats - These would be several different fields allowing for input of Level, XP given, HP, Attacks etc. etc. etc. (as per Arreat tables) and an instant 'switch' on each page would allow you to switch between the different difficulties' stats. Or would it be better to have three separate entries for each monster, one for each difficulty?
  • Superunique Modifiers - For known super uniques only (think Rakanishu for example) things like 'Lightning Enchanted' and 'Extra Fast'. Basically any of the unique modifiers that spawn on this superunique.
  • Found in Zone - For known super uniques/very common appearances of monsters in specific map zones. For example, Rakanishu always spawning in Stony Field or Lord De Seis in the Chaos Sanctuary. This would allow for some cool auto-relations to be built between the two categories.
  • Treasure Class - For superuniques only (since they have static TC values as they always spawn in the zame alvl for each difficulty).
The 'description' of the monster would be filled in separately by contributors as is the case for items at this time.

So guys, anything else you think would be worthy of a space in the database for monsters? Try to think wide about this - is there any data that would pair up well with other parts of the site, both existing and planned?

7
Found in Zone should be fairly easy to do because in the game txt files it lists each monster that can spawn in a zone. Plus I'd imagine the information is available elsewhere.

Base Stats get funky because monster level changes depending on the area, so the stats change too. The Arreat Summit data is probably as good as that gets, but it lists every monster as having a Block Chance, when most monsters can't actually block.

I think Act would fall under the Found in Zone I mentioned earlier.

I'd personally say that the only "Bosses" are Ubers, DClone, and Act Bosses. I could see someone arguing for the Arreat Summit bosses, but calling Putrid Defiler a Boss? Really? That seems fishy to me.
7
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Teebling 9734Admin

RotW Warlock Europe PC
Arsteel wrote: 5 years ago
Found in Zone should be fairly easy to do because in the game txt files it lists each monster that can spawn in a zone. Plus I'd imagine the information is available elsewhere.
Great observation @Arsteel - this will make things a lot easier for everyone.
Arsteel wrote: 5 years ago
I think Act would fall under the Found in Zone I mentioned earlier.
Are monsters not restricted to each Act, besides the 'guest' appearances under different names in Act V?
Arsteel wrote: 5 years ago
Base Stats get funky because monster level changes depending on the area, so the stats change too. The Arreat Summit data is probably as good as that gets, but it lists every monster as having a Block Chance, when most monsters can't actually block.
Noted on block chance - we should still include it as a possible stat for those rare occasions right?
Arsteel wrote: 5 years ago
I'd personally say that the only "Bosses" are Ubers, DClone, and Act Bosses. I could see someone arguing for the Arreat Summit bosses, but calling Putrid Defiler a Boss? Really? That seems fishy to me.
Definitely will be a point of contention. Have added a vote to the original post so we can see what the support is for traditional vs intuitive.

7
It would also be great to list resistances & Immunities for each monsters.
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Teebling 9734Admin

RotW Warlock Europe PC
Fellowship wrote: 5 years ago
It would also be great to list resistances & Immunities for each monsters.
That will come under stats, so already taken into consideration.

7
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Tavron 180

RotW Paladin Europe PC Switch
A thing I would like to see added as a separate entry to 'Monster Stats' would be 'Treasure Class'.
This would allow people to quickly find out if the monster in question can drop the items you are looking for, instead of having to browse monster stats for it.
Because what we really want to know is if the monster is worth farming :)

"Seven Evils spawned of seven heads. Seven realms birthed from Death."
7
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Teebling 9734Admin

RotW Warlock Europe PC
Tavron wrote: 5 years ago
A thing I would like to see added as a separate entry to 'Monster Stats' would be 'Treasure Class'.
This would allow people to quickly find out if the monster in question can drop the items you are looking for, instead of having to browse monster stats for it.
Is treasure class for each monster recorded somewhere?

7
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Tavron 180

RotW Paladin Europe PC Switch
Teebling wrote: 5 years ago
Tavron wrote: 5 years ago
A thing I would like to see added as a separate entry to 'Monster Stats' would be 'Treasure Class'.
This would allow people to quickly find out if the monster in question can drop the items you are looking for, instead of having to browse monster stats for it.
Is treasure class for each monster recorded somewhere?
Hmmm I could actually only find the listings for some 1.09 monsters https://diablo2.diablowiki.net/TC_Monsters, so it might be too hard to implement if isn't found anywhere.

Edit: I found this bit of information on https://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Treasure_Classes:

"Every monster has a range of assigned TCs it may drop from, always starting at 3, and going upwards as the monsters get higher level later in the game. For a rule of thumb, most monsters top TC is about the same as their Mlvl, or slightly lower. So an Mlvl 70 monster's top TC would be 66 or 69, most likely. Everything can drop from Weapon or Armor 3, and the misc TCs, but hardly anything can drop from TC 90."

"Seven Evils spawned of seven heads. Seven realms birthed from Death."
7

 Deleted User 632 0

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there is also TreasureClassEx (expansion) and TreasureClass (classic) in the google sheet.
7
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Teebling 9734Admin

RotW Warlock Europe PC
Okay we can add TC then. Linking spreadsheet again for future reference.



Edit: Someone would have to decipher the cryptic wording in the spreadsheet first though - for example if I wanted to enter the TC (ex) of an Act I Carver then which row am I looking at?

7

 Deleted User 632 0

 Guest
yea it's hard to tell. first column is TreasureClass and 3. column is level. most info on monster stats are on the Arreat Summit. Monsters check the top of the page for more options.
7
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Teebling 9734Admin

RotW Warlock Europe PC
Udyret wrote: 5 years ago
yea it's hard to tell. first column is TreasureClass and 3. column is level. most info on monster stats are on the Arreat Summit. Monsters check the top of the page for more options.
Hmm... well I don't know then, if it's not easy for the contributors to extract this data then we might have to give it a miss.

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 Deleted User 632 0

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check the Act I Bestiary, Act II Bestiary, Act III Bestiary, Act IV Bestiary, Act V Bestiary tabs for stats.
7
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Khegan 454

I managed to find a list of 1.10+ treasure classes only for each Super Unique. Extracting the same data from MonStats.txt for regular mobs is a whole other matter, however.
Norm Night Hell
Act I mlvl (TC) mlvl (TC) mlvl (TC)

Corpsefire 4 (3) 39 (42) 82 (78)
Bishibosh 5 (3) 39 (42) 71 (69)
Blood Raven 10 (6) 43 (42) 88 (66)
Bonebreaker 5 (3) 40 (42) 86 (78)
Coldcrow 7 (3) 39 (42) 80 (75)
Rakanishu 8 (6) 40 (42) 71 (69)
Treehead Woodfist 8 (6) 41 (42) 71 (69)
Griswold 8 (12) 42 (66) 87 (66)
------------
The Countess 11 (12) 45 (45) 82 (66)
------------
The Smith 13 (12) 43 (66) 73 (66)
Pitspawn Fouldog 14 (6) 44 (45) 74 (72)
Bone Ash 17 (12) 45 (48) 75 (75)
--------
Andariel 12 (15) 49 (45) 75 (69)
--------
The Cow King 31 (12) 67 (66) 84 (66)


Norm Night Hell
Act II mlvl (TC) mlvl (TC) mlvl (TC)

Radament 19 (27) 52 (51) 86 (75)
Creeping Feature 18 (15) 47 (48) 82 (78)
Blood Witch the Wild 17 (15) 48 (51) 85 (78)
Beetleburst 19 (18) 48 (51) 79 (75)
Coldworm the Burrower *) 14 (18) 49 (51) 88 (78)
Dark Elder 20 (18) 49 (51) 80 (75)
Fangskin **) 21 (18) 50 (51) 86 (78)
Fire Eye 21 (18) 51 (51) 81 (78)
------------
The Summoner 21 (21) 58 (48) 83 (72)
------------
Ancient Kaa the Soulless 23 (21) 52 (51) 83 (78)
------
Duriel 22 (24) 55 (51) 88 (72)

*) "Maggot Queen"
**) In 1.11, Blizzard changed Fangskin's Hell TC in SuperUniques.txt to " Fangskin [H]". However, there is no TC by that name
in TreasureClassEx.txt, hence why Fangskin drops nothing in Hell. This bug has not been fixed - and probably never will be.


Norm Night Hell
Act III mlvl (TC) mlvl (TC) mlvl (TC)

Sszark the Burning 25 (24) 53 (51) 82 (78)
Witch Doctor Endugu 27 (27) 54 (54) 86 (78)
Stormtree 26 (27) 53 (51) 83 (78)
Battlemaid Sarina 26 (27) 56 (54) 87 (78)
Icehawk Riftwing 25 (24) 55 (54) 87 (78)
-----------------
Geleb Flamefinger 28 (33) 57 (54) 85 (78)
Ismail Vilehand 28 (33) 57 (54) 85 (78)
Toorc Icefist 28 (33) 57 (54) 85 (78)
---------------
Bremm Sparkfist 28 (33) 58 (54) 86 (78)
Maffer Dragonhand 28 (33) 58 (54) 86 (78)
Wyand Voidbringer 28 (33) 58 (54) 86 (78)
--------
Mephisto 26 (33) 59 (54) 87 (78)


Norm Night Hell
Act IV mlvl (TC) mlvl (TC) mlvl (TC)


Izual 29 (36) 60 (57) 86 (78)
Hephasto the Armorer 28 (36) 60 (60) 88 (84)
---------------------
Grand Vizier of Chaos 33 (36) 61 (57) 88 (78)
Infector of Souls 33 (36) 61 (57) 88 (78)
Lord De Seis 33 (36) 61 (57) 88 (78)
------
Diablo 40 (36) 62 (60) 94 (84)


Norm Night Hell
Act V mlvl (TC) mlvl (TC) mlvl (TC)

Dac Farren 37 (39) 61 (60) 83 (87)
------------------
Shenk the Overseer 36 (36) 61 (60) 83 (84)
Eldritch the Rectifier 34 (36) 62 (60) 84 (84)
-----------------
Sharptooth Slayer 39 (39) 62 (60) 84 (87)
-----------------
Eyeback the Unleashed 35 (36) 62 (60) 84 (84)
-------------
Thresh Socket 41 (39) 63 (63) 84 (87)
Frozenstein 46 (39) 64 (63) 86 (87)
-------------
Bonesaw Breaker 36 (36) 64 (60) 86 (84)
----------
Pindleskin 45 (39) 66 (63) 86 (87)
Nihlathak 68 (39) 73 (60) 95 (87)
----------
Snapchip Shatter 40 (39) 65 (63) 86 (87)
------------------
Talic the Defender ***) 40 (--) 71 (--) 90 (--)
Madawc The Guardian 40 (--) 71 (--) 90 (--)
Korlic the Protector 40 (--) 71 (--) 90 (--)
-----------------------
Colenzo the Annihilator 43 (39) 69 (69) 88 (87)
Achmel the Cursed 43 (39) 69 (69) 88 (87)
Bartuc the Bloody 43 (39) 69 (69) 88 (87)
Ventar the Unholy 43 (39) 69 (69) 88 (87)
Lister the Tormentor 58 (39) 69 (69) 88 (87)
----
Baal 60 (42) 75 (63) 99 (87)

***) "The Ancients"
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Tavron 180

RotW Paladin Europe PC Switch
SPOILER
Khegan wrote: 5 years ago
I managed to find a list of 1.10+ treasure classes only for each Super Unique. Extracting the same data from MonStats.txt for regular mobs is a whole other matter, however.
Norm Night Hell
Act I mlvl (TC) mlvl (TC) mlvl (TC)

Corpsefire 4 (3) 39 (42) 82 (78)
Bishibosh 5 (3) 39 (42) 71 (69)
Blood Raven 10 (6) 43 (42) 88 (66)
Bonebreaker 5 (3) 40 (42) 86 (78)
Coldcrow 7 (3) 39 (42) 80 (75)
Rakanishu 8 (6) 40 (42) 71 (69)
Treehead Woodfist 8 (6) 41 (42) 71 (69)
Griswold 8 (12) 42 (66) 87 (66)
------------
The Countess 11 (12) 45 (45) 82 (66)
------------
The Smith 13 (12) 43 (66) 73 (66)
Pitspawn Fouldog 14 (6) 44 (45) 74 (72)
Bone Ash 17 (12) 45 (48) 75 (75)
--------
Andariel 12 (15) 49 (45) 75 (69)
--------
The Cow King 31 (12) 67 (66) 84 (66)


Norm Night Hell
Act II mlvl (TC) mlvl (TC) mlvl (TC)

Radament 19 (27) 52 (51) 86 (75)
Creeping Feature 18 (15) 47 (48) 82 (78)
Blood Witch the Wild 17 (15) 48 (51) 85 (78)
Beetleburst 19 (18) 48 (51) 79 (75)
Coldworm the Burrower *) 14 (18) 49 (51) 88 (78)
Dark Elder 20 (18) 49 (51) 80 (75)
Fangskin **) 21 (18) 50 (51) 86 (78)
Fire Eye 21 (18) 51 (51) 81 (78)
------------
The Summoner 21 (21) 58 (48) 83 (72)
------------
Ancient Kaa the Soulless 23 (21) 52 (51) 83 (78)
------
Duriel 22 (24) 55 (51) 88 (72)

*) "Maggot Queen"
**) In 1.11, Blizzard changed Fangskin's Hell TC in SuperUniques.txt to " Fangskin [H]". However, there is no TC by that name
in TreasureClassEx.txt, hence why Fangskin drops nothing in Hell. This bug has not been fixed - and probably never will be.


Norm Night Hell
Act III mlvl (TC) mlvl (TC) mlvl (TC)

Sszark the Burning 25 (24) 53 (51) 82 (78)
Witch Doctor Endugu 27 (27) 54 (54) 86 (78)
Stormtree 26 (27) 53 (51) 83 (78)
Battlemaid Sarina 26 (27) 56 (54) 87 (78)
Icehawk Riftwing 25 (24) 55 (54) 87 (78)
-----------------
Geleb Flamefinger 28 (33) 57 (54) 85 (78)
Ismail Vilehand 28 (33) 57 (54) 85 (78)
Toorc Icefist 28 (33) 57 (54) 85 (78)
---------------
Bremm Sparkfist 28 (33) 58 (54) 86 (78)
Maffer Dragonhand 28 (33) 58 (54) 86 (78)
Wyand Voidbringer 28 (33) 58 (54) 86 (78)
--------
Mephisto 26 (33) 59 (54) 87 (78)


Norm Night Hell
Act IV mlvl (TC) mlvl (TC) mlvl (TC)


Izual 29 (36) 60 (57) 86 (78)
Hephasto the Armorer 28 (36) 60 (60) 88 (84)
---------------------
Grand Vizier of Chaos 33 (36) 61 (57) 88 (78)
Infector of Souls 33 (36) 61 (57) 88 (78)
Lord De Seis 33 (36) 61 (57) 88 (78)
------
Diablo 40 (36) 62 (60) 94 (84)


Norm Night Hell
Act V mlvl (TC) mlvl (TC) mlvl (TC)

Dac Farren 37 (39) 61 (60) 83 (87)
------------------
Shenk the Overseer 36 (36) 61 (60) 83 (84)
Eldritch the Rectifier 34 (36) 62 (60) 84 (84)
-----------------
Sharptooth Slayer 39 (39) 62 (60) 84 (87)
-----------------
Eyeback the Unleashed 35 (36) 62 (60) 84 (84)
-------------
Thresh Socket 41 (39) 63 (63) 84 (87)
Frozenstein 46 (39) 64 (63) 86 (87)
-------------
Bonesaw Breaker 36 (36) 64 (60) 86 (84)
----------
Pindleskin 45 (39) 66 (63) 86 (87)
Nihlathak 68 (39) 73 (60) 95 (87)
----------
Snapchip Shatter 40 (39) 65 (63) 86 (87)
------------------
Talic the Defender ***) 40 (--) 71 (--) 90 (--)
Madawc The Guardian 40 (--) 71 (--) 90 (--)
Korlic the Protector 40 (--) 71 (--) 90 (--)
-----------------------
Colenzo the Annihilator 43 (39) 69 (69) 88 (87)
Achmel the Cursed 43 (39) 69 (69) 88 (87)
Bartuc the Bloody 43 (39) 69 (69) 88 (87)
Ventar the Unholy 43 (39) 69 (69) 88 (87)
Lister the Tormentor 58 (39) 69 (69) 88 (87)
----
Baal 60 (42) 75 (63) 99 (87)

***) "The Ancients"
@Khegan Nice, those are the most important ones anyway.

"Seven Evils spawned of seven heads. Seven realms birthed from Death."
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Teebling 9734Admin

RotW Warlock Europe PC
Nice one @Khegan if we can get it for Super Uniques with that ease then great! We can forget about regular monsters for now.

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 Deleted User 632 0

 Guest
if you go to SuperUnique tab in the sheet you can check the TC, TC(N), TC(H) columns for the tresureclass of each unique monster. then you can check the TresureClassEx tab for the TC level. regular monster type tresureclass in the MonStats tab.
7
OP
User avatar

Teebling 9734Admin

RotW Warlock Europe PC
Udyret wrote: 5 years ago
if you go to SuperUnique tab in the sheet you can check the TC, TC(N), TC(H) columns for the tresureclass of each unique monster. then you can check the TresurecClassEx tab for the TC level. regular monster type tresureclass in the MonStats tab.
Yes thank you, but we’ve already established that the regular monsters will be too difficult to parse from that data because nothing is labelled or identifiable.

For superuniques we will use Khegan’s list which is easier to interpret.

7

 Deleted User 632 0

 Guest
agree. but are you gonna add quality levels to all the items too? @Teebling
7
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User avatar

Teebling 9734Admin

RotW Warlock Europe PC
Udyret wrote: 5 years ago
agree. but are you gonna add quality levels levels to all the items too? @Teebling
Quality Levels already exist in the database for all base items, which means that they also exist for all uniques and set items too :)

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