Uber Ancients builds (post 3.3)

ShadowHeart wrote: 2 days ago

ganseng wrote: 2 days ago

some weird Conviction interaction?

I mean, he’s lightning immune, and even when sundered Conviction only works at 1/5 effect. So he has far more resistance than the others who are not lightning immune.

yeah, what I mean is that he's relatively harder to kill than the other two with Thunderstroke than with Infinity

With my gear:

Infinity vs him he has net negative 10 res, the other two negative 100 res; he should take ~half the dmg than the other two

Thunderstroke vs him he has 41 res, the other two 16 res; he should take 70% of the dmg of the other two

but it feels like with Infinity he takes ~50% less, and with Thunderstroke he takes ~70% less

ganseng wrote: 2 days ago

ShadowHeart wrote: 2 days ago

ganseng wrote: 2 days ago

some weird Conviction interaction?

I mean, he’s lightning immune, and even when sundered Conviction only works at 1/5 effect. So he has far more resistance than the others who are not lightning immune.

yeah, what I mean is that he's relatively harder to kill than the other two with Thunderstroke than with Infinity

With my gear:

Infinity vs him he has net negative 10 res, the other two negative 100 res; he should take ~half the dmg than the other two

Thunderstroke vs him he has 41 res, the other two 16 res; he should take 70% of the dmg of the other two

but it feels like with Infinity he takes ~50% less, and with Thunderstroke he takes ~70% less

Assuming your zon is equipping Infinity I believe the neg-rez takes effect on hit after Conviction aura is applied so even with the penalty that is significant. Losing shield and range options for maybe ~15% extra damage would depend on your play style more than anything else. Definitely would be the maximum spearazon damage especially now that you can use Matriarchal Spear !

The Level 12 Conviction aura from Infinity is not capable of breaking Uber Madawc Lightning immunity. The -% Lightning resustance from Thunderstroke doesn’t work with Lightning imunes. -% Lightning resistance works 100% after immunity is broken. In order to Conviction work, you must have the sunder charm.

Ofc I have a sunder charm, a perfect -10, and a perfect Griffon's Eye, with an almost perfect Guardian's Thunder (-9). My Infinity is -49. I don't use Infinity on merc when using Thunderstroke

So, against Talic & Korlic my -elr is 173 with Infinity and 54 with Thunderstroke. Against Madawc it's 105 and 54 respectively. Taking onto account their respective resistances, dmg output ratio vs Madawc compared to the other two is 0.55 with Infinity and 0.7 with Thunderstroke.

But comparative kill speed isn't consistent with these values

Or rather, 0.55 is plausible with Infinity, but 0.7 isn't plausible with Thunderstroke. It's rather 0.2 to 0.3 with Thunderstroke

I had noticed a similar anomaly before when i killed them with Infinity and a +15 sunder charm instead of the -10 one. The loss of -10 res had a disproportionate effect on the dmg output vs Madawc

Something doesn't add up here

Is there some non-linearity in damage taking (e.g. magic damage reduced by X or lightning absorb Y for the Uancients? This could explain your observation. (Just speculating)

Just finished my first run, was better than I expected. To my Char:

LVL 92 Frenzy Barb

Arreat's Face
GH Fortitude
Laying of Hands
Gore Rider
Thundergod's Vigor
Highlord's Wrath
Raven Frost
Rare Ring with +120 AR, +32 Life, +29 Fire & +28 Poison Res

Main Hand:
PB Last Wish
PB Grief

Off Hand (to buff):
DB Spirit
Scourge Heart of the Oak

Charms:
Hellfire Torch (Assassin +Skills xD)
Renewed Bone Break
Gheed's Fortune (forgot to take it off but okay xD)
Various Charms with +Res, +Life, +Ar

Talic was first, pretty easy. Madawc was second, also manageable. But Korlic had some mean Attacks, finished him off but killed me with the last Strike xD
Was aiming for Protector's Stone, got one with a decent roll
All in all, i expected a more difficult battle but these two PB's are just a blessing for my Barb.

thx, that's something I wondered about, is a barb a good ubers killer? extreme res and health pool speaks in favor of this assumption. and apparently, even with not fully optimized gear, it works quite well

You probably would have wanted a pair of good crafted Blood Gloves instead of the Laying of Hands wouldn't you?

hesoyamskills wrote: 1 day ago

Just finished my first run, was better than I expected. To my Char:

LVL 92 Frenzy Barb

Arreat's Face
GH Fortitude
Laying of Hands
Gore Rider
Thundergod's Vigor
Highlord's Wrath
Raven Frost
Rare Ring with +120 AR, +32 Life, +29 Fire & +28 Poison Res

Main Hand:
PB Last Wish
PB Grief

Off Hand (to buff):
DB Spirit
Scourge Heart of the Oak

Charms:
Hellfire Torch (Assassin +Skills xD)
Renewed Bone Break
Gheed's Fortune (forgot to take it off but okay xD)
Various Charms with +Res, +Life, +Ar

Talic was first, pretty easy. Madawc was second, also manageable. But Korlic had some mean Attacks, finished him off but killed me with the last Strike xD
Was aiming for Protector's Stone, got one with a decent roll
All in all, i expected a more difficult battle but these two PB's are just a blessing for my Barb.

ganseng wrote: 1 day ago

thx, that's something I wondered about, is a barb a good ubers killer? extreme res and health pool speaks in favor of this assumption. and apparently, even with not fully optimized gear, it works quite well

You probably would have wanted a pair of good crafted Blood Gloves instead of the Laying of Hands wouldn't you?

hesoyamskills wrote: 1 day ago

Just finished my first run, was better than I expected. To my Char:

LVL 92 Frenzy Barb

Arreat's Face
GH Fortitude
Laying of Hands
Gore Rider
Thundergod's Vigor
Highlord's Wrath
Raven Frost
Rare Ring with +120 AR, +32 Life, +29 Fire & +28 Poison Res

Main Hand:
PB Last Wish
PB Grief

Off Hand (to buff):
DB Spirit
Scourge Heart of the Oak

Charms:
Hellfire Torch (Assassin +Skills xD)
Renewed Bone Break
Gheed's Fortune (forgot to take it off but okay xD)
Various Charms with +Res, +Life, +Ar

Talic was first, pretty easy. Madawc was second, also manageable. But Korlic had some mean Attacks, finished him off but killed me with the last Strike xD
Was aiming for Protector's Stone, got one with a decent roll
All in all, i expected a more difficult battle but these two PB's are just a blessing for my Barb.

I'd go and say that the Barb is an underestimated Uber killer, if he got the gear obviously. Yesterday I also did Uber Tristram, easy going IMO.
I do have some Blood Gloves in my Stash somewhere but the increased IAS and +50% comes in handy aswell. And without my Last Wish, a pair of Dracul's Grasp would be BiS for the Life Tap's.
But yea it's a good Option for running Ubers

I'm planning to do it as Frenzy too. But I don't have enought time those days.

Same setup but with Axe (Grief +eDeath). Maybe CoH instead of Fortitude and a Life Tap Wand cause no Last Wish.

Very easy against Ubers thanks to Howl.

Tornado_OLO wrote: 1 day ago

I'm planning to do it as Frenzy too. But I don't have enought time those days.

Same setup but with Axe (Grief +eDeath). Maybe CoH instead of Fortitude and a Life Tap Wand cause no Last Wish.

Very easy against Ubers thanks to Howl.

Well then good luck mate and keep us updated if you do so

ganseng wrote: 1 day ago

thx, that's something I wondered about, is a barb a good ubers killer? extreme res and health pool speaks in favor of this assumption. and apparently, even with not fully optimized gear, it works quite well

You probably would have wanted a pair of good crafted Blood Gloves instead of the Laying of Hands wouldn't you?

hesoyamskills wrote: 1 day ago

Just finished my first run, was better than I expected. To my Char:

LVL 92 Frenzy Barb

Arreat's Face
GH Fortitude
Laying of Hands
Gore Rider
Thundergod's Vigor
Highlord's Wrath
Raven Frost
Rare Ring with +120 AR, +32 Life, +29 Fire & +28 Poison Res

Main Hand:
PB Last Wish
PB Grief

Off Hand (to buff):
DB Spirit
Scourge Heart of the Oak

Charms:
Hellfire Torch (Assassin +Skills xD)
Renewed Bone Break
Gheed's Fortune (forgot to take it off but okay xD)
Various Charms with +Res, +Life, +Ar

Talic was first, pretty easy. Madawc was second, also manageable. But Korlic had some mean Attacks, finished him off but killed me with the last Strike xD
Was aiming for Protector's Stone, got one with a decent roll
All in all, i expected a more difficult battle but these two PB's are just a blessing for my Barb.

Frenzy Barb can definitely take on Ubers with the right gear, I've done it several times. Won't get it done as fast as a Smiter but still gets it done.

it's very hard to avoid the annoying prebuffing with Treachery though isn't it? unless you compromise with dmg and/or crushing blow

is lifetap a necessity or can you life leech normally and use Amplify Damage or Decrepify instead?

BigD wrote: 1 day ago

ganseng wrote: 1 day ago

thx, that's something I wondered about, is a barb a good ubers killer? extreme res and health pool speaks in favor of this assumption. and apparently, even with not fully optimized gear, it works quite well

You probably would have wanted a pair of good crafted Blood Gloves instead of the Laying of Hands wouldn't you?

hesoyamskills wrote: 1 day ago

Just finished my first run, was better than I expected. To my Char:

LVL 92 Frenzy Barb

Arreat's Face
GH Fortitude
Laying of Hands
Gore Rider
Thundergod's Vigor
Highlord's Wrath
Raven Frost
Rare Ring with +120 AR, +32 Life, +29 Fire & +28 Poison Res

Main Hand:
PB Last Wish
PB Grief

Off Hand (to buff):
DB Spirit
Scourge Heart of the Oak

Charms:
Hellfire Torch (Assassin +Skills xD)
Renewed Bone Break
Gheed's Fortune (forgot to take it off but okay xD)
Various Charms with +Res, +Life, +Ar

Talic was first, pretty easy. Madawc was second, also manageable. But Korlic had some mean Attacks, finished him off but killed me with the last Strike xD
Was aiming for Protector's Stone, got one with a decent roll
All in all, i expected a more difficult battle but these two PB's are just a blessing for my Barb.

Frenzy Barb can definitely take on Ubers with the right gear, I've done it several times. Won't get it done as fast as a Smiter but still gets it done.

ganseng wrote: 1 day ago

it's very hard to avoid the annoying prebuffing with Treachery though isn't it? unless you compromise with dmg and/or crushing blow

is lifetap a necessity or can you life leech normally and use Amplify Damage or Decrepify instead?

BigD wrote: 1 day ago

ganseng wrote: 1 day ago

thx, that's something I wondered about, is a barb a good ubers killer? extreme res and health pool speaks in favor of this assumption. and apparently, even with not fully optimized gear, it works quite well

You probably would have wanted a pair of good crafted Blood Gloves instead of the Laying of Hands wouldn't you?

Frenzy Barb can definitely take on Ubers with the right gear, I've done it several times. Won't get it done as fast as a Smiter but still gets it done.

Prebuffing with Treachery is more or less mandatory, yes. Frenzy Barb generally needs an inventory full of +max dmg/+AR charms vs smiter who does not need AR (and +max dmg from said charms do not apply to Smite) --and can therefore use a bunch of res charms instead (thereby possibly having enough res not to need Treachery prebuff) - not to mention having a shield. Frenzy Barb having to rely on AR doesn't have that luxury, and generally having minimum 10K AR is what I'd recommend - **BEFORE** any Demon Limb prebuffs (if you choose to use that, which I also recommend otherwise you might have a hard time with Uber Baal and his Chilling Armour).

Lifetap is definitely mandatory for Uber Meph. For Uber Baal and Diablo, you can get away with Decrep or Amp Dmg. Decrep arguably works better on Uber Baal due to some sort of bug/glitch that causes Decrep to sort of break his AI - similar to normal Baal, he won't Teleport or make a clone of himself while decrepped. However, with Uber Baal, be advised that if you're using Laying of Hands, the CTC Holy Bolt on striking will trigger his chilling armour reflect which will cause alot of damage, UNLESS you have Ravenfrost or a source of cold absorb (I recommend Ravenfrost because of the CBF and the huge boost to AR, which Frenzy Barb needs as much of as they can get).

Laying of Hands is optimal for gloves because a Frenzy Barb can make use of the +350% damage to demons (unlike a smiter where this doesn't apply to their Smite) and will generally need the +IAS from LoH. However, if you need more CB, some Blood Gloves with +IAS can also work. LoH would still be my recommendation though, as 50% CB is generally enough (which Gface and Gore Rider will provide).

BigD wrote: 1 hour ago

ganseng wrote: 1 day ago

it's very hard to avoid the annoying prebuffing with Treachery though isn't it? unless you compromise with dmg and/or crushing blow

is lifetap a necessity or can you life leech normally and use Amplify Damage or Decrepify instead?

BigD wrote: 1 day ago

Frenzy Barb can definitely take on Ubers with the right gear, I've done it several times. Won't get it done as fast as a Smiter but still gets it done.

Prebuffing with Treachery is more or less mandatory, yes. Frenzy Barb generally needs an inventory full of +max dmg/+AR charms vs smiter who does not need AR (and +max dmg from said charms do not apply to Smite) --and can therefore use a bunch of res charms instead (thereby possibly having enough res not to need Treachery prebuff) - not to mention having a shield. Frenzy Barb having to rely on AR doesn't have that luxury, and generally having minimum 10K AR is what I'd recommend - **BEFORE** any Demon Limb prebuffs (if you choose to use that, which I also recommend otherwise you might have a hard time with Uber Baal and his Chilling Armour).

Lifetap is definitely mandatory for Uber Meph. For Uber Baal and Diablo, you can get away with Decrep or Amp Dmg. Decrep arguably works better on Uber Baal due to some sort of bug/glitch that causes Decrep to sort of break his AI - similar to normal Baal, he won't Teleport or make a clone of himself while decrepped. However, with Uber Baal, be advised that if you're using Laying of Hands, the CTC Holy Bolt on striking will trigger his chilling armour reflect which will cause alot of damage, UNLESS you have Ravenfrost or a source of cold absorb (I recommend Ravenfrost because of the CBF and the huge boost to AR, which Frenzy Barb needs as much of as they can get).

Laying of Hands is optimal for gloves because a Frenzy Barb can make use of the +350% damage to demons (unlike a smiter where this doesn't apply to their Smite) and will generally need the +IAS from LoH. However, if you need more CB, some Blood Gloves with +IAS can also work. LoH would still be my recommendation though, as 50% CB is generally enough (which Gface and Gore Rider will provide).

Not sure he was talking about Tristram Ubers but ancients.