Update on the switch from Dark Lancer to Urdar in the Tainted build, RE: Death Mark tele-locking:
The urdar is able to move freely after Death Mark. It does not get stuck by the Tainted like the Dark Lancer does.
I haven't been able to check if the Tainted get locked by the Urdar after teleporting, because the Urdar doesn't sit still. My hypothesis is that the Tainted get locked "within the hit box" of the Urdar, like the Dark Lancer gets locked "within the hit box" of the Tainted. The problem with that hypothesis is that when YOU Teleport with your demons/merc, everyone gets frozen until you move if you have a big guy like Lister or an Urdar--so no idea why the big guys with the larger hit boxes get frozen in that situation.
If I understood correctly that the Summon Tainted get the -Enemy fire resist and Skill level at the point of summoning and then you can wear whatever gear afterwards, then the best pre-buff would be: Dual Phoenix + Flickering Flame + Arkaine's Valor socketed with Defender's Fire for total -81 EFR right? Do I miss anything?
Does it also mean that we can fill up the inventory with Demon skillers before summoning, and then stash them all afterwards during our run to have more loot space?
Yes, you can load up on Demon skillers, a plus 3 demon ammy, +6 demon book +6 demon Kris (good luck on those two) and then swap out everything for a complete Chaos setup if you like. Tedious, but that seems to be the way the Bound demons (and summons) work: snapshot of skill levels at time they are spawned.
I've been toying with two build ideas, both with max Bind Demon, Demonic Mastery and Blood Oath. 1) max Abyss + max miasma chains, rest in Miasma Bolt, with Mang and either baalos book (for +2 demon/+3 Demonic Mastery) or a +3/+3 Bind Demon book (rerolling till I fond one) on swap, and Void or Obsession + Meph book on main, swapping out skillers, Wraithstep and ammy at the start of games. = Strong Demon / Strong if not maxed Abyss/Chains.
2) *current build* Max Tainted, Max Blood Boil, rest in Engorge. Stack demon skills at start, swap to + fire skills/fire sunder/flicker when summoning Tainted. If -fire res proves to work on summoned Tainted, will stack -fire res on swap for rapid resummons. I'm still not sure if they get the -fire res yet, although I know they get the sunder effect regardless of whether you keep the sunder in your inventory or not. I also don't know if your summons get the resistance penalties or not. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No your Summon's don't get the penalty's from your sunder charm only the benefits, asked grok about this a milltion type of ways to water out the nitty gritty on how it is.
If I understood correctly that the Summon Tainted get the -Enemy fire resist and Skill level at the point of summoning and then you can wear whatever gear afterwards, then the best pre-buff would be: Dual Phoenix + Flickering Flame + Arkaine's Valor socketed with Defender's Fire for total -81 EFR right? Do I miss anything?
Does it also mean that we can fill up the inventory with Demon skillers before summoning, and then stash them all afterwards during our run to have more loot space?
Yes, you can load up on Demon skillers, a plus 3 demon ammy, +6 demon book +6 demon Kris (good luck on those two) and then swap out everything for a complete Chaos setup if you like. Tedious, but that seems to be the way the Bound demons (and summons) work: snapshot of skill levels at time they are spawned.
I've been toying with two build ideas, both with max Bind Demon, Demonic Mastery and Blood Oath. 1) max Abyss + max miasma chains, rest in Miasma Bolt, with Mang and either baalos book (for +2 demon/+3 Demonic Mastery) or a +3/+3 Bind Demon book (rerolling till I fond one) on swap, and Void or Obsession + Meph book on main, swapping out skillers, Wraithstep and ammy at the start of games. = Strong Demon / Strong if not maxed Abyss/Chains.
2) *current build* Max Tainted, Max Blood Boil, rest in Engorge. Stack demon skills at start, swap to + fire skills/fire sunder/flicker when summoning Tainted. If -fire res proves to work on summoned Tainted, will stack -fire res on swap for rapid resummons. I'm still not sure if they get the -fire res yet, although I know they get the sunder effect regardless of whether you keep the sunder in your inventory or not. I also don't know if your summons get the resistance penalties or not. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No your Summon's don't get the penalty's from your sunder charm only the benefits, asked grok about this a milltion type of ways to water out the nitty gritty on how it is.
Great to know. I have been loading up on skillers and summoning Tainted with the sunder and then sticking the sunder back in the stash. Seems to be working as long as I can keep the Tainted alive without having to resummon. Would like to try with heavy -EFR to see if they are even more effective.
If aura and cursed are your priorities, you can accomplish that with 1 point in Bind Demon and a lot of +skills/+demon skillers (+19 to be exact). Just get a cursed regular mob like an Urdar from a Tz96 Cursed affix game, preferably with as many players in game as possible, and it should retain the Cursed affix as well as gain an Aura--keep binding until you get Fanaticism.
Once your demon is bound, you can relax on the skillers/+Bind Demon gear aince the Aura doesn't go away after it is bound. Just the damage of your demon will change when you remove skillers/Bind Demon equip.
Yes, you can load up on Demon skillers, a plus 3 demon ammy, +6 demon book +6 demon Kris (good luck on those two) and then swap out everything for a complete Chaos setup if you like. Tedious, but that seems to be the way the Bound demons (and summons) work: snapshot of skill levels at time they are spawned.
I've been toying with two build ideas, both with max Bind Demon, Demonic Mastery and Blood Oath. 1) max Abyss + max miasma chains, rest in Miasma Bolt, with Mang and either baalos book (for +2 demon/+3 Demonic Mastery) or a +3/+3 Bind Demon book (rerolling till I fond one) on swap, and Void or Obsession + Meph book on main, swapping out skillers, Wraithstep and ammy at the start of games. = Strong Demon / Strong if not maxed Abyss/Chains.
2) *current build* Max Tainted, Max Blood Boil, rest in Engorge. Stack demon skills at start, swap to + fire skills/fire sunder/flicker when summoning Tainted. If -fire res proves to work on summoned Tainted, will stack -fire res on swap for rapid resummons. I'm still not sure if they get the -fire res yet, although I know they get the sunder effect regardless of whether you keep the sunder in your inventory or not. I also don't know if your summons get the resistance penalties or not. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No your Summon's don't get the penalty's from your sunder charm only the benefits, asked grok about this a milltion type of ways to water out the nitty gritty on how it is.
Great to know. I have been loading up on skillers and summoning Tainted with the sunder and then sticking the sunder back in the stash. Seems to be working as long as I can keep the Tainted alive without having to resummon. Would like to try with heavy -EFR to see if they are even more effective.
AI often confuses PD2 with ROTW, just a warning.
My understanding is that if you're carrying a sunder with -fire res it works on the monster 1:1 rather than on you. So if you have -6 fire res sunder, the immune fire res is sundered to 95% and then -6 for 89% fire res. That's only while you're holding it. And the Tainted hit the monster with 89% fire res with their fire damage. The +% damage sunder does nothing for summons. Same for all jewels (including -fire res). So your tainteds get no benefit from jewels and no benefit from a sunder you're not holding.
There's so much testing I need to do. I'm wondering if Fanaticism 2xtainted with lancer is better than 3xtainted. I'm wondering if defiler with 2x Tainted is better than 3x Tainted. I'm wondering if defiler/lancer/Tainted is actually better than Blood Boil.
No your Summon's don't get the penalty's from your sunder charm only the benefits, asked grok about this a milltion type of ways to water out the nitty gritty on how it is.
Great to know. I have been loading up on skillers and summoning Tainted with the sunder and then sticking the sunder back in the stash. Seems to be working as long as I can keep the Tainted alive without having to resummon. Would like to try with heavy -EFR to see if they are even more effective.
AI often confuses PD2 with ROTW, just a warning.
My understanding is that if you're carrying a sunder with -fire res it works on the monster 1:1 rather than on you. So if you have -6 fire res sunder, the immune fire res is sundered to 95% and then -6 for 89% fire res. That's only while you're holding it. And the Tainted hit the monster with 89% fire res with their fire damage. The +% damage sunder does nothing for summons. Same for all jewels (including -fire res). So your tainteds get no benefit from jewels and no benefit from a sunder you're not holding.
There's so much testing I need to do. I'm wondering if Fanaticism 2xtainted with lancer is better than 3xtainted. I'm wondering if defiler with 2x Tainted is better than 3x Tainted. I'm wondering if defiler/lancer/Tainted is actually better than Blood Boil.
Lancer does not pair well with Tainted. If you use Death Mark, the lancer will get tele-locked inside the Tainted until they move, which they don't if they have something to shoot at.
I gave up my unique P8 Dark Lancer for a unique P8 Urdar and the Urdar does not get tele-locked by the Tainted when using Death Mark--it does get tele-locked on me when using Teleport, but more often than not, I want him on top of me (to block missiles) or to stay put. So, Death Mark for attack, Teleport for reposition and protection.
I wish the Dark Lancer wouldn't get locked by Tainted, because they are insane. And fun. Maybe when I try my Summon/Abyss build...
If aura and cursed are your priorities, you can accomplish that with 1 point in Bind Demon and a lot of +skills/+demon skillers (+19 to be exact). Just get a cursed regular mob like an Urdar from a Tz96 Cursed affix game, preferably with as many players in game as possible, and it should retain the Cursed affix as well as gain an Aura--keep binding until you get Fanaticism.
Once your demon is bound, you can relax on the skillers/+Bind Demon gear aince the Aura doesn't go away after it is bound. Just the damage of your demon will change when you remove skillers/Bind Demon equip.
You mean going 3 Tainted vs Unique demon/2 Tainted? Absolutely. The bound demon is part of what I enjoy about the build. They also work hand in hand with immunities. Even Fire/Physical immunes go down relatively quickly due to sunder for Fire and Amp Damage for physical. Plus my fatty Mauler is super cool. Honestly, once you're around 50 skill level, they kill so fast, I don't think it matters.
You mean going 3 Tainted vs Unique demon/2 Tainted? Absolutely. The bound demon is part of what I enjoy about the build. They also work hand in hand with immunities. Even Fire/Physical immunes go down relatively quickly due to sunder for Fire and Amp Damage for physical. Plus my fatty Mauler is super cool. Honestly, once you're around 50 skill level, they kill so fast, I don't think it matters.
Well I've only found one demon skiller so I have a ways to go on that threshold.
What skills do you Sacrifice to get the 15BD points?
Edit:
Ok so even with one point in defiler you get (something like, depending on gear) 57% shared damage across 5 targets. That has to be worth sacrificing a Tainted for unless you're talking about just purely single target farming. You only need to splash 1 additional creature from each Fireball from 2 Tainted to make up for the other one not shooting. So right away, I should change my build to a defiler except possibly for andy runs. But the same logic should apply to a bound demon.
You mean going 3 Tainted vs Unique demon/2 Tainted? Absolutely. The bound demon is part of what I enjoy about the build. They also work hand in hand with immunities. Even Fire/Physical immunes go down relatively quickly due to sunder for Fire and Amp Damage for physical. Plus my fatty Mauler is super cool. Honestly, once you're around 50 skill level, they kill so fast, I don't think it matters.
Well I've only found one demon skiller so I have a ways to go on that threshold.
What skills do you Sacrifice to get the 15BD points?
Edit:
Ok so even with one point in defiler you get (something like, depending on gear) 57% shared damage across 5 targets. That has to be worth sacrificing a Tainted for unless you're talking about just purely single target farming. You only need to splash 1 additional creature from each Fireball from 2 Tainted to make up for the other one not shooting. So right away, I should change my build to a defiler except possibly for andy runs. But the same logic should apply to a bound demon.
I have 6 demon skillers (from trading at ~Ist/20pgems apiece), Obsession (+4), Shako (+2), interchangeable Mara (+2) or +3 demon ammy, Baalos book (+2 demon, +4 Bb, +2 DM), Enigma (+2), 2x SOJ +2 (one drop, one for ~2 Ist), Magefist (+1 fire), Arachnid Belt (+1), Wraithstep demon (+1), anni(+1) and hellfire (+3). That puts me at:
Then I swap a Gheed for fire sunder, go out and CTA buff, and that gives me:
49 Summon Tainted
50 Demonic Mastery
48 Blood Oath
And I summon 2 Tainted. At this point these two have set stats and my job is to keep them alive.
Then I switch out the sunder for the Gheed again and usually dump 2 of the demon skillers back in the stash for extra inventory space (Blood Boil is helpful, but I don't care about maxing it) and switch ammy to Mara.
I find this to be a highly flexible, relatively fast and safe setup. My Mauler kills very fast. The Tainted kill nonimmunes far away very fast. Works great on spread out areas like Frigid Highlands. If I am in a heavy fire immune area, I switch to two defilers and let the Mauler clear everything--I am finding similar clear speeds.
For Heralds, I use any combination of demons depending on the pack. If they aren't fire immune, 2 Tainted. If they are, 2 defilers. If they are particularly strong or interrupt my Mauler too much (e.g., pack of Urdar), I pull out 2 goats to take some attention off my Mauler and let him go to town one by one. For archer packs, I find cover, watch my merc get deleted, and then Death Mark the Mauler and other two demons around (again, depending on pack). Same with Gloam packs with the addition of me hugging my knees and crying.
I have 6 demon skillers (from trading at ~Ist/20pgems apiece), Obsession (+4), Shako (+2), interchangeable Mara (+2) or +3 demon ammy, Baalos book (+2 demon, +4 Bb, +2 DM), Enigma (+2), 2x SOJ +2 (one drop, one for ~2 Ist), Magefist (+1 fire), Arachnid Belt (+1), Wraithstep demon (+1), anni(+1) and hellfire (+3). That puts me at:
Then I swap a Gheed for fire sunder, go out and CTA buff, and that gives me:
49 Summon Tainted
50 Demonic Mastery
48 Blood Oath
And I summon 2 Tainted. At this point these two have set stats and my job is to keep them alive.
Then I switch out the sunder for the Gheed again and usually dump 2 of the demon skillers back in the stash for extra inventory space (Blood Boil is helpful, but I don't care about maxing it) and switch ammy to Mara.
I find this to be a highly flexible, relatively fast and safe setup. My Mauler kills very fast. The Tainted kill nonimmunes far away very fast. Works great on spread out areas like Frigid Highlands. If I am in a heavy fire immune area, I switch to two defilers and let the Mauler clear everything--I am finding similar clear speeds.
For Heralds, I use any combination of demons depending on the pack. If they aren't fire immune, 2 Tainted. If they are, 2 defilers. If they are particularly strong or interrupt my Mauler too much (e.g., pack of Urdar), I pull out 2 goats to take some attention off my Mauler and let him go to town one by one. For archer packs, I find cover, watch my merc get deleted, and then Death Mark the Mauler and other two demons around (again, depending on pack). Same with Gloam packs with the addition of me hugging my knees and crying.
I do feel like i'm headed this way. I play offline so I can't trade for skillers. I have to just roll them.
I play 3 Tainted with Blood Boil right now. But I think the math makes it clear that 2 Tainted + 1 defiler would be better. But if that's true, I have a hard time figuring out 2 Tainted + 1 bound demon is better for you than 1/1/1. I'm for sure going to put my next point in defiler and see how that plays compared to 3 Tainted.
As far as switching to bound demon, I think you're right on about sacrificing Engorge for it, that's probably where I would pull points as well.
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