Good Zealers use Smite against Ubers [...] Before I tried Infinity I used a The Reaper's Toll as well and in my estimation / for ME overall Infinity is the better choice (better hit chance overall and you get the lower def instantly and do not have to "wait" until Decrepify procs).
No offense, too. But I encourage you to "play" with real builds and not rely on "theoretical calculations"
I don't play Pala much, but doesn't Smite always hit the target regardless of attack rating and defense?
That means everything you said makes even less sense and the "real" advantage you mention is imaginary.
Good Zealers use Smite against Ubers [...] Before I tried Infinity I used a The Reaper's Toll as well and in my estimation / for ME overall Infinity is the better choice (better hit chance overall and you get the lower def instantly and do not have to "wait" until Decrepify procs).
No offense, too. But I encourage you to "play" with real builds and not rely on "theoretical calculations"
I don't play Pala much, but doesn't Smite always hit the target regardless of attack rating and defense?
That means everything you said makes even less sense and the "real" advantage you mention is imaginary.
Yes it does, and that it the reason I use it with Uber Baal (and the Uber Ancients to get the "right" kill order). For all other mobs I use Zeal.
After a 20 year break from D2 I started playing D2R in 2024 with my sons (9 and 10 years old)
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Yes it does, and that it the reason I use it with Uber Baal (and the Uber Ancients to get the "right" kill order). For all other mobs I use Zeal.
You could just use Smite on all the Ubers so you don't have to waste 70% damage potential to hit them reliably with Zeal.
I guess "good" players do it like that. At least you found a solution for your self-made problem.
Yes it does, and that it the reason I use it with Uber Baal (and the Uber Ancients to get the "right" kill order). For all other mobs I use Zeal.
You could just use Smite on all the Ubers so you don't have to waste 70% damage potential to hit them reliably with Zeal.
I guess "good" players do it like that. At least you found a solution for your self-made problem.
You really amuse me (no offense). I get the other Ubers quicker down with Zeal (because they have far lower def than Uber Baal and my Merc easily brings their def down further) and my Dracs proc faster when I hit their minions, too.
You really should play this game and not crunshing numbers
I gladly let you have the last word, but I am out here now. Cheers
After a 20 year break from D2 I started playing D2R in 2024 with my sons (9 and 10 years old)
Time Zone: UTC/GMT +1/+2 (Germany)
Online workdays: casually from 07:00-09:00 pm
Online weekends: casually midday to evening
Non-Ladder | Softcore | Expansion
@oOKIWIOo You said that your chars need this setup for mana sustain and players shouldn't complain, because it's a trade-off between damage and sustain. Turns our you're just playing your characters wrong or your setup is bad and you could have both, which invalidates the point you were trying to make.
The recent PTR notes highlighted a problem that has been there forever: mana sustain.
If they take Conviction from the demon and fire Warlocks have to use Infinity on the merc, sustain goes down the drain and we will have to either use mana pots or change the build and Sacrifice damage for sustain.
Not having to worry about mana makes them very nice to play right now.
There are few builds that can sustain their own mana - mainly the ones where cast speed is less important.
Many Java players have Phoenix on the main slot for sustain, even though they lose damage. You can give your merc Insight to solve this, but also lose 30% of damage or so for elemental builds.
In PvP mana pots are put in front of town, because players run out of mana after some time.
The game makes you choose between damage, fluid gameplay and constantly drinking mana pots, which is not great game design.
Blizzard clearly tried to put mechanics into the game to solve this problem, but they only make it slightly better instead of solving it.
How can this be solved?
1. Increase mana regeneration across the board. Fixes the problem for everyone passively.
2. Stop increasing mana costs past skill level 20 or make the curve flatter. Fixes the problem for everyone passively.
3. Change Energy: It directly increases mana regeneration or gives more mana (which does the same), and increases spell damage (like STR and DEX), to give casters a reason to put points into it. Fixes the problem actively, but not for melee.
4. Like 3, but also decrease melee skill costs so they don't need points in energy for sustain. Passive fix for melee, active fix for casters.
5. Make out of combat regeneration faster. The worst solution, because it interrupts gameplay, but it's a possibility.
6. Flask slots like in PoE? They're mainly used for health in PoE though, not for mana. At least you don't have to refill your Belt, but this would require many changes to item and drops.
Thoughts?
Project Diablo 2 implements a lot of this by the way and feedback is very positive.
My thoughts?
Uh... Just drink mana pots like everyone else does?
I really don't understand how this went from "I don't want to drink mana pots or put points into Energy" to "You're losing 70% Zeal damage" - but as oOKIWIOo said, amusing.
Just drink mana pots dude. The blue ones. You can buy them in any town and mobs drop them constantly. You'll be fine. We all do it. It's just blue drink. It tastes good too!
Sounds to me like you want to play a different game/ different version of Diablo. Since the very start, Diablo 2 has required players to make tradeoffs, for example putting points in energy vs vitality, thus having less life but more mana to use for casting. Or balancing more damage output vs more magic find. Or balancing magic find vs resists. There should never be a build that gives you maximum everything.
Compared to the early days, some tradeoffs have been mitigated (for example, sunder charms negated the need for either an expensive runeword or a hybrid build for sorc and other classes to deal with immunities). But one tradeof that has remained, and is a deliberate, core gameplay mechanic, is that you have a finite amount of mana. You have ways to increase it, but it means you may have to trade some other aspects of your build.
If a game does not force any sort of tradeoff, and literally everything has no downsides, that would be bad game design. You appear to be asking for the option to have a max damage build, and so much mana that you dont have to point points in energy/ drink potions. That may not be your intent, but it is how you are coming across.
For my javazon, with merc holding Infinity, yes, I had mana issues. So I swapped to SilkweaveBoots, with the mana after each kill. My mana situation is improved, but I lost some resists. Its all about choosing what tradeoff you can live with. Whereas with my sorc, I decided to give my merc an Insight, and accept the lower damage output compared to Infinity, because it just made my playing time more enjoyable. Do I one shot every monster in the game? No, but thats OK. You face a similar choice: Is doing the absolute maximum damage whie having the absolute maximum health pool the most important thing to you? Then you will likely have mana issues, and have to drink potions (you know, the inbuilt easy way to keep mana up)
If a game does not force any sort of tradeoff, and literally everything has no downsides, that would be bad game design. You appear to be asking for the option to have a max damage build, and so much mana that you dont have to point points in energy/ drink potions. That may not be your intent, but it is how you are coming across.
Nope. I'd be perfectly fine if there were no mana potions at all and players were forced to use sustain items.
It's just that picking up mana potions from the Ground or going to the trader and buying them isn't really a gameplay tradeoff, but a chore.
As it is, the game might just as well give players endless mana, because that's what potions do, only with the unnecessary effort of refilling the Belt.
I still dont understand your complaint. Use items to keep your mana high then? You have been given the tools, now you need to use them. As has been suggested, Silkweave, Crescent Moon, Insight, all of these will keep your mana high, among other options.
Yes, it might decrease your maximum damage, that is literally the point. That is the tradeoff.
This is about the upcoming PTR changes, as the first sentence of the post says. If Conviction on demons isn't allowed anymore, the build will have to use Infinity on the merc.
Warlock skills cost up to 90 mana and the current meta build runs out easily without Insight, even if you kill a full room with every cast. Ars Diabolos doesn't prevent that. Just try it for yourself.
So there's the choice I'm talking about, that many other builds already have to make. Weaken the build or use potions.
I read the post, that's why I chose to reply.
I've been running it since release, while running both Conviction Hephasto + Infinity on Merc since I knew there would be incoming nerfs to very broken skills and losing demons in pvp. No issues whatsoever with mana sustain, I really think you might be overcasting your abilities.
7 Maek is enough to sustain in any room, unless you're just spamming abilities when there is no need to.
Always free Uber/Dclone kills, Non-ladder only currently
This is about the upcoming PTR changes, as the first sentence of the post says. If Conviction on demons isn't allowed anymore, the build will have to use Infinity on the merc.
Warlock skills cost up to 90 mana and the current meta build runs out easily without Insight, even if you kill a full room with every cast. Ars Diabolos doesn't prevent that. Just try it for yourself.
So there's the choice I'm talking about, that many other builds already have to make. Weaken the build or use potions.
I read the post, that's why I chose to reply.
I've been running it since release, while running both Conviction Hephasto + Infinity on Merc since I knew there would be incoming nerfs to very broken skills and losing demons in pvp. No issues whatsoever with mana sustain, I really think you might be overcasting your abilities.
7 Maek is enough to sustain in any room, unless you're just spamming abilities when there is no need to.
I agree.
Maybe @sh3ll is just playing his class wrong. It happens.
I still dont understand your complaint. Use items to keep your mana high then? You have been given the tools, now you need to use them. As has been suggested, Silkweave, Crescent Moon, Insight, all of these will keep your mana high, among other options.
Yes, it might decrease your maximum damage, that is literally the point. That is the tradeoff.
Giving up significant stats only to avoid a dull mechanic is a bad trade-off and most players don't consider it.
That's why I suggested either making the mechanic less dull or the trade-off more viable. Shouldn't be very controversial.
7 Maek is enough to sustain in any room, unless you're just spamming abilities when there is no need to.
No, it's not. I tested this with 9 maek and almost perfect equipment before making this post. Only Teleport and Apocalypse. Would be interesting to know how you play, but probably not fast 8 player TZs.
Look, no one here appears to agree with you. Your argument of "why not just make mana infinite because mana potions exist" is as foolish as "why not make health infinite because health potions exist". It is a deliberate part of the game. The tradeoff is apparently viable for everyone else, time for you to get on board, or go play something else. Complain all you want, you are finding no sympathy or agreement. You clearly want a different game, where you can have everything you want with no downsides.
No, it's not. I tested this with 9 maek and almost perfect equipment before making this post. Only Teleport and Apocalypse. Would be interesting to know how you play, but probably not fast 8 player TZs.
Sounds more like a difference of playstyles, but there should be no struggle to maintain your mana. May be missing a few pieces or just overcasting still. Even on P8, when doesn't die in one Apocalypse dies to the follow up Flame Wave.
Always free Uber/Dclone kills, Non-ladder only currently
Sounds more like a difference of playstyles, but there should be no struggle to maintain your mana. May be missing a few pieces or just overcasting still. Even on P8, when doesn't die in one Apocalypse dies to the follow up Flame Wave.
What you describe uses 50-60 mana per second. You only get 6-7 back from mana regeneration without Insight, plus maek. Like I said, would be interesting to see how you play.
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