Please explain how charms makes your game enjoyable

Since everybody and their mother plays the Warlock this ladder season (me too, my ma doesn't play D2 as far as I know), all items that are of no use to the warlock (e. g. skillers for the other seven classes) have dropped significantly in value. Everywhere.

ghostpos wrote: 1 day ago

@ipatrishkov Meh no one playing Druid right now, except me lol.

Make a hc and I will deck you out. Just get some spare runes. Also, I have been playing with the thought in my head to make a

Rabies Druid. Never played the class before though

ipatrishkov wrote: 1 day ago

ghostpos wrote: 1 day ago

mikelessar wrote: 1 day ago

Large charms can be pretty strong for melee chars not needing +skills (max damage + attack rating + life) On ladder, I pick up all large charms and last season I got lucky and sold a strong melee lc for almost 2

Jah

Yup. There are great ones out there, but like you said it's relegated to melee which isn't exactly a popular route these days. I refer to this chart on skiller viability:image.png

Elemental skillers are A tear? I have about 4 I am trying to sell in HCNL for puny

Pul each and no one wants them.

Up to the point, my favourite item in the game is the charm, lol. I get most excited when a grand charm is dropped. If I could wear charms on all gear slots too , I would. I guess it’s just a matter of preference

His picture is correct in past. But it looks like ages, I think it maybe build before jav amazon become strong and no Mosaic . Very early days

cold resistance can reduce to very low level, unlike now. cold sorc is super strong.

I like charms... They're customizable ways to buffer your char... For instance, I've got a bunch of skillers and FHR charms that I use to kill dclone (and other hard bosses). I've got small charms that balance the fact that my equipment does not give me enough fire resist. I've got MF charms to help me get better drops.

I'm playing in a steam deck so I cant put stuff from the Ground directly to the cube, so I have 2x4 spaces to get loot. It works super well for me and makes the game enjoyable.

Notice what everyone highlights as the good part about charms: customization, greater power, balancing gear choices.

Charms add something good to the game, they just do it in a terrible way. Any system that didn't clutter up your inventory would be better.

I have never been that bothered because by the time you fill your inventory up with actual good charms your not picking up items all that often anyways - by that point your looking for actual valuable items

You can have the cake or you can eat the cake. Or you can eat half the cake and keep the other half. Why would it be better to be told that you must eat the cake or you must not eat the cake? The real answer is that you want to have the cake and eat it too.

For people who are enjoying the Chronicle, therefore, grabbing uniques/sets to do a little check for eligibility, grabbing gems and runes off the Ground, couple backup potions etc., a dedicated charm inventory would be a godsend, now more than ever.

FireRockGSF wrote: 21 hours ago

For people who are enjoying the Chronicle, therefore, grabbing uniques/sets to do a little check for eligibility, grabbing gems and runes off the Ground, couple backup potions etc., a dedicated charm inventory would be a godsend, now more than ever.

I don't like the idea of a dedicated inventory for charms because there'll be trade offs and I'm not sure if this is good or bad

for instance, I fill practically my whole inventory with skillers and FHR charms when doing dclone (and a couple times I've done ubers with them), but when I'm farming /doing TZ then I use my MF charms to get better loot. the fact that it is customizable is important to me. I'm afraid it may go away with a dedicated inventory

I like charms in general, it's very satisfying when you get a good one, and the flexibility they give you is nice.

However, I do agree with OP in some ways. D2's itemisation is so good that you find a ton of items worth ID'ing on every run, just in case they turn out to be godly. Obviously they never do turn out to be godly but that's the D2 loop right there!

If you're just hunting for runes, bases, and those super rare uniques, the cube is more than enough space. If you're picking up every pair of rare

Boots, every pair of magic and rare gloves, every pelt, etc., it can get a touch irritating.

Having said that, I don't tend to carry any ID scrolls with me so perhaps I should stop being a fool and put some in my

Belt.

StoBeast wrote: 1 day ago

I come from d2 classic and now playing ROTW. Every build suggests your inventory is slap full of charms, only space is in the cube. I was reading a post on how “

Sling” ring gives you an extra spot for a charm… and I’m sitting here thinking “how?”. This is a loot based game, I have an empty inventory and I STILL get annoyed at having to go to town to sell or put items in stash.

It is just another tradeoff. Everything in the game is a tradeoff.

You can put all your points into strength to do more damage, or you can put all your points into vitality to withstand more damage.

It is the same with the inventory. You flood it with charms to find more stuff, or you can leave it empty to collect more stuff.

I think familiarity with items plays a part in inventory management. 99% of uniques & sets pieces are recognisable as they drop so you don't even need to pick them up. As long as I have the space to pick up a large potential base item, I'd rather have charms in my inventory that are contributing to my mf/resist/killing speed as the mood takes me.

Charms can open up equipment slots, if I want to swap out my tri res resist

Boots for war travelers or Gores I can use charms to fill the shortfall in resists etc.
I run with 2x4 open spaces and a cube. Plenty for me.

Sling ring, so I dont need a

Tome and identity scrolls in

Belt.

I try to get matching charms in appearance because I prefer the aesthetics and neatness. I don't pick up large charms because I don't think they are worth stopping for. I know there are some bangers but years of disappointment has soured me.

catladyx wrote: 19 hours ago

I don't like the idea of a dedicated inventory for charms because there'll be trade offs and I'm not sure if this is good or bad

for instance, I fill practically my whole inventory with skillers and FHR charms when doing dclone (and a couple times I've done ubers with them), but when I'm farming /doing TZ then I use my MF charms to get better loot. the fact that it is customizable is important to me. I'm afraid it may go away with a dedicated inventory

Charm inventory would give you more freedom, not less.
Right now you have two competing setups: empty space for loot/convenience or charms for power (with 2 sub-setups in your case: DPS or MF).
With charm inventory you'd have empty space for loot with no charms there, and a dedicated space for charms only. You'd still need to switch between DPS and MF charms, but space for loot would always be available.

Trang Oul wrote: 10 hours ago

catladyx wrote: 19 hours ago

I don't like the idea of a dedicated inventory for charms because there'll be trade offs and I'm not sure if this is good or bad

for instance, I fill practically my whole inventory with skillers and FHR charms when doing dclone (and a couple times I've done ubers with them), but when I'm farming /doing TZ then I use my MF charms to get better loot. the fact that it is customizable is important to me. I'm afraid it may go away with a dedicated inventory

Charm inventory would give you more freedom, not less.
Right now you have two competing setups: empty space for loot/convenience or charms for power (with 2 sub-setups in your case: DPS or MF).
With charm inventory you'd have empty space for loot with no charms there, and a dedicated space for charms only. You'd still need to switch between DPS and MF charms, but space for loot would always be available.

fair enough, it makes sense

(my concern would be potential reduced space - I'd like to be able to fit my whole inventory (4x10) with charms if needed, but if they only give us like 2x10 for instance then it would be bad for me)

catladyx wrote: 9 hours ago

(my concern would be potential reduced space - I'd like to be able to fit my whole inventory (4x10) with charms if needed, but if they only give us like 2x10 for instance then it would be bad for me)

You're right, that's a fair concern.
But I doubt that if charm inventory is ever increased, it would be smaller than the current one. Such a change would negatively impact NLD players.

D2Veteran wrote: 1 day ago

Power vs. convenience. If you want more power you have to give up convenience. The idea behind charms was to round out your build by filling in gaps gear could not solve. It's entirely optional, except for say PvP where inventory space is not needed at all. If you are farming in public games where you are competing for loot with other players, then you obviously would make room to accommodate for that (common sense, right?)

Sling ring replaces

Tome of Town Portal, it grants you portal as an O skill, that's how you gain additional inventory space for charms. You could of course place your

Tome of Town Portal in your cube, then swap it over with a charm when you need to create a tp, but this adds more inconvenience, something you're looking to avoid.

Some community mods over the years have tried to address this conundrum by doubling the inventory space and allocating the bottom half to charm use, making charms invalid when placed in the top half of the inventory screen.

To answer the topic title, I'm indifferent to the charm system, mainly due to the fact that I've played this game for so long I've become desensitized to it's drawbacks.

I do like this idea and have thought about the bottom half is charms and invalid in the top half but you could use the bottom for items as well for more convenience. Taking it a step further you could for example unlock more space in the charm half by level, say at level 8 you get 8 slots, lvl 16 12 slots, etc.

Trang Oul wrote: 10 hours ago

[..] Charm inventory would give you more freedom, not less. [..]

Only if it becomes a copy of the current inventory that's merely limited to charms (and charms get blocked from normal inventory).
But there is a very real possibility that if they chose to add a charm inventory, they'd come up with some unnecessarily restrictive and detrimental solution that'll give you like "5 grand slots and 3 large slots and 8 small slots" instead, removing all player agency and freedom via lack of choice when it comes to charm sizes used/mixed.

Schnorki wrote: 2 hours ago

Trang Oul wrote: 10 hours ago

[..] Charm inventory would give you more freedom, not less. [..]

Only if it becomes a copy of the current inventory that's merely limited to charms (and charms get blocked from normal inventory).
But there is a very real possibility that if they chose to add a charm inventory, they'd come up with some unnecessarily restrictive and detrimental solution that'll give you like "5 grand slots and 3 large slots and 8 small slots" instead, removing all player agency and freedom via lack of choice when it comes to charm sizes used/mixed.

Is that what matters about charms, though? Granted, I don't think a charm-specific inventory is the best solution (although it might be one of the easiest to implement), but the positive that charms add to the game isn't interesting inventory management. The effect that charms have on the inventory is 100% negative.

As mentioned above, players highlighting the positive aspects of charms speak about customization, power increase, and rounding up gear. No one has ever said (or will ever say) that they like charms because they reduce inventory space/make managing your inventory interesting.

IMO, the issue that charms attack well is increasing power level at the late game, not doing something cool with the inventory. There are many ways to solve that problem without messing with convenience/QoL (especially for beginners, who are the most affected by the negative aspects of charms and see the least benefit from them).

human_being wrote: 1 hour ago

Schnorki wrote: 2 hours ago

Trang Oul wrote: 10 hours ago

[..] Charm inventory would give you more freedom, not less. [..]

Only if it becomes a copy of the current inventory that's merely limited to charms (and charms get blocked from normal inventory).
But there is a very real possibility that if they chose to add a charm inventory, they'd come up with some unnecessarily restrictive and detrimental solution that'll give you like "5 grand slots and 3 large slots and 8 small slots" instead, removing all player agency and freedom via lack of choice when it comes to charm sizes used/mixed.

Is that what matters about charms, though? Granted, I don't think a charm-specific inventory is the best solution (although it might be one of the easiest to implement), but the positive that charms add to the game isn't interesting inventory management. The effect that charms have on the inventory is 100% negative.

As mentioned above, players highlighting the positive aspects of charms speak about customization, power increase, and rounding up gear. No one has ever said (or will ever say) that they like charms because they reduce inventory space/make managing your inventory interesting.

The problem that charms tried to solve was about increasing power level at the late game, not doing something cool with the inventory. There are many ways to solve that problem without messing with convenience/QoL (especially for beginners, who are the most affected by the negative aspects of charm and see the least benefit from it).

That's a different topic.

I'm not saying charms have any positive impact on your inventory space. Obviously, they don't. Whether or not that is by design or simply a relic of "we had to get them in somehow" remains a different question.

I'm merely saying that IF they end up creating a dedicated charm inventory, there is a very real chance that when it comes to charms, the flexibility and choice we have for them now will be significantly negatively impacted, depending on how they go about designing it. It'd still free up your inventory and would be beneficial/positive for looting purposes, sure, but specifically for charms it could absolutely be significantly worse than what we currently have.

Schnorki wrote: 1 hour ago

human_being wrote: 1 hour ago

Schnorki wrote: 2 hours ago

Only if it becomes a copy of the current inventory that's merely limited to charms (and charms get blocked from normal inventory).
But there is a very real possibility that if they chose to add a charm inventory, they'd come up with some unnecessarily restrictive and detrimental solution that'll give you like "5 grand slots and 3 large slots and 8 small slots" instead, removing all player agency and freedom via lack of choice when it comes to charm sizes used/mixed.

Is that what matters about charms, though? Granted, I don't think a charm-specific inventory is the best solution (although it might be one of the easiest to implement), but the positive that charms add to the game isn't interesting inventory management. The effect that charms have on the inventory is 100% negative.

As mentioned above, players highlighting the positive aspects of charms speak about customization, power increase, and rounding up gear. No one has ever said (or will ever say) that they like charms because they reduce inventory space/make managing your inventory interesting.

The problem that charms tried to solve was about increasing power level at the late game, not doing something cool with the inventory. There are many ways to solve that problem without messing with convenience/QoL (especially for beginners, who are the most affected by the negative aspects of charm and see the least benefit from it).

That's a different topic.

I'm not saying charms have any positive impact on your inventory space. Obviously, they don't. Whether or not that is by design or simply a relic of "we had to get them in somehow" remains a different question.

I'm merely saying that IF they end up creating a dedicated charm inventory, there is a very real chance that when it comes to charms, the flexibility and choice we have for them now will be significantly negatively impacted, depending on how they go about designing it. It'd still free up your inventory and would be beneficial/positive for looting purposes, sure, but specifically for charms it could absolutely be significantly worse than what we currently have.

I think that's entirely a matter of implementation. If they added some kind of dedicated inventory/equipment slots for charms that did reduce options (eg, you can now only equip a certain amount of charms, or charm size doesn't matter anymore) that's not bad in itself. It's only bad if you're losing options without gaining something better in return. And that depends entirely on how they'd rework charms to function in that world. IMO, having fewer impactful options is better than many irrelevant ones (like whether you use 3 small charms vs. 1 grand charm).

To me, the issue at the root of charms is crossing the streams of equipment and storage. If it were up to me, we'd have a completely different kind of system, probably something that revolved around the gear that's actually cool.

Just as an aside, I actually don't think the biggest issue with a dedicated charm inventory is reducing choice, I think it's that it makes charms too free without really adding anything interesting to do (you do the same thing you do now, just more). Here's where I defend the current system vs. a dedicated inventory.

Sorry to be long-winded about this, I do think it's a pretty interesting conversation.