I'm currently playing a MS Bowazon with Windforce in the new ladder with a maxed Valkyrie for tanking and a cold rogue
to keep the enemies chilled and have tons of defense removed with her ability.
Yet despite pumping almost all my points into Dex and maxing out my AR ability, my to-hit is an abyssmal 65%
and my Windforce hits like a wet noodle even in singelplayer on hell diff. I tried doing a terrorized sanctum yesterday
and it took the better part of 30 minutes to clear the sanctum due to several bosses being phys immune - despite me
having a bonebreak rune.... turning a phys immune to 95% phys res doesn't really do much.
And when doing cow on hell, the damage drops again to hardly doing any damage .
Windforce is the hardest hitting bow and extremely hard to get , yet it's not able to manage the hell content !?,
and it doesn't help that the amazon has ZERO skills to Penetrate physical resistances and the synergys for
physical damage is also extremely lacking.
Meanwhile i see Sorcs, Druids, assassins, paladins .. pretty much all other classes with crap gear utterly destroying
cows or hell or even terrorized sanctum . I read up on various sources of information and they all pretty much have
the same opinion... physical bowazon was dropped behind the wagon in terms of damage balance and the only way
to have them perform even close to the other classes is to spent fortunes in runewords while other classes
handles all content just fine without .
If there is ANY work still being done in terms of balancing this game... phys bowazon should be the primary target
for a HUGE workover and buff, because unless you have stacks of endgame runes and the perfect uniqes ,
your bowazon will feel like a total waste of time .
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I'm currently playing a MS Bowazon with Windforce in the new ladder with a maxed Valkyrie for tanking and a cold rogue
to keep the enemies chilled and have tons of defense removed with her ability.
Yet despite pumping almost all my points into Dex and maxing out my AR ability, my to-hit is an abyssmal 65%
and my Windforce hits like a wet noodle even in singelplayer on hell diff. I tried doing a terrorized sanctum yesterday
and it took the better part of 30 minutes to clear the sanctum due to several bosses being phys immune - despite me
having a bonebreak rune.... turning a phys immune to 95% phys res doesn't really do much.
And when doing cow on hell, the damage drops again to hardly doing any damage .
Windforce is the hardest hitting bow and extremely hard to get , yet it's not able to manage the hell content !?,
and it doesn't help that the amazon has ZERO skills to Penetrate physical resistances and the synergys for
physical damage is also extremely lacking.
Meanwhile i see Sorcs, Druids, assassins, paladins .. pretty much all other classes with crap gear utterly destroying
cows or hell or even terrorized sanctum . I read up on various sources of information and they all pretty much have
the same opinion... physical bowazon was dropped behind the wagon in terms of damage balance and the only way
to have them perform even close to the other classes is to spent fortunes in runewords while other classes
handles all content just fine without .
If there is ANY work still being done in terms of balancing this game... phys bowazon should be the primary target
for a HUGE workover and buff, because unless you have stacks of endgame runes and the perfect uniqes ,
your bowazon will feel like a total waste of time .
to keep the enemies chilled and have tons of defense removed with her ability.
Yet despite pumping almost all my points into Dex and maxing out my AR ability, my to-hit is an abyssmal 65%
and my Windforce hits like a wet noodle even in singelplayer on hell diff. I tried doing a terrorized sanctum yesterday
and it took the better part of 30 minutes to clear the sanctum due to several bosses being phys immune - despite me
having a bonebreak rune.... turning a phys immune to 95% phys res doesn't really do much.
And when doing cow on hell, the damage drops again to hardly doing any damage .
Windforce is the hardest hitting bow and extremely hard to get , yet it's not able to manage the hell content !?,
and it doesn't help that the amazon has ZERO skills to Penetrate physical resistances and the synergys for
physical damage is also extremely lacking.
Meanwhile i see Sorcs, Druids, assassins, paladins .. pretty much all other classes with crap gear utterly destroying
cows or hell or even terrorized sanctum . I read up on various sources of information and they all pretty much have
the same opinion... physical bowazon was dropped behind the wagon in terms of damage balance and the only way
to have them perform even close to the other classes is to spent fortunes in runewords while other classes
handles all content just fine without .
If there is ANY work still being done in terms of balancing this game... phys bowazon should be the primary target
for a HUGE workover and buff, because unless you have stacks of endgame runes and the perfect uniqes ,
your bowazon will feel like a total waste of time .
Can be used to make Runewords:
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that you are some combination of undergeared and/or underleveled.
A properly geared and decently leveled WF zon will completely and utterly annihilate any content you throw at it with the exception of ubers, which tend to take a more specific type of build to go after (but can then absolutely also be handled by a bowzon).
Unlike many a caster build however, a bowzon is VERY gear dependent. You really can't just hand her a proper bow in conjunction with otherwise just random starter gear and expect her to dominate across the board. She can still get through stuff, sure, but the scaling comes first and foremost via gear. And in the case of WF specifically also via level as the max dmg bonus scales with that.
The one and only thing holding a proper geared bowzon back in terms of overall clear speed is slower travel (stuck at run speeds and/or terrible cast rate with Enigma) as compared to just about every other class. It it wasn't for that, my bowzon would completely eclipse many a "meta build". Kill speed is the least of her concerns.
Phys immunes do suck, yes. Though fully geared, even a sunder by itself is enough to make quick work of most. For larger uniques, 1 pt in Magic Arrow blows them up quick enough. Come a Protector's Stone added, let alone a -res renewed sunder, you're more than set either way as you drop the res far enough to keep wrecking everything.
Now, with that in mind, given the (perhaps future) assumption of proper gear, you really don't want to waste points on Valkyrie. And you really don't want an A1 merc. A1 mercs with Faith are a fantastic addition to a WF zon in theory. In reality however, a properly geared one will be clearing and moving so fast that no A1 merc can keep up (even with Hysteria + run helmet), meaning you constantly outrange the merc's fana, rendering her useless. An A2 might/Pride merc is far superior here as (given Hysteria), they're quick enough to stay in range in nearly any situation. Might is generally optional in that case as for most normal runs, he'll never get a chance to proc it (due to 0 hits on anything) and you won't be missing it. But for the added fun of it, esp. in longer runs I suppose, now that shards are a thing, have him solo the first pack to proc his might and enjoy the ride. The valk is pointless for much the same reasons as once your zon is properly built, no walk will ever even come close to touching even a single target before they all die, excluding only certain bosses (depending on how you go about them).
Simply put, otherwise potentially endless rant aside, top-end zons (both, Faith and WF) are crazy strong and the only help they might possibly justifiably deserve is with regards to travel speed. Entry level zons however suffer the same fate as entry level barbs and really most entry level physical dmg dealers as they are simply rather on the weak side without (enough of) the right gear. They essentially (nearly) all trade a caster's +skill dependence (which is far easier to get going) for a more general gear dependence.
Funny enough though, despite the curve being steeper, meaning you need more of your top-end gear to close in on proper performance, the actual total value/cost/whatever of a bowzon's top-end loadout is typically far lower/cheaper than that of say a sorc or hammerdin, let alone a lock (though those are obviously still heavily inflated). At least excluding for a second the current insanity of a Latent Bone Break *cough*.
A properly geared and decently leveled WF zon will completely and utterly annihilate any content you throw at it with the exception of ubers, which tend to take a more specific type of build to go after (but can then absolutely also be handled by a bowzon).
Unlike many a caster build however, a bowzon is VERY gear dependent. You really can't just hand her a proper bow in conjunction with otherwise just random starter gear and expect her to dominate across the board. She can still get through stuff, sure, but the scaling comes first and foremost via gear. And in the case of WF specifically also via level as the max dmg bonus scales with that.
The one and only thing holding a proper geared bowzon back in terms of overall clear speed is slower travel (stuck at run speeds and/or terrible cast rate with Enigma) as compared to just about every other class. It it wasn't for that, my bowzon would completely eclipse many a "meta build". Kill speed is the least of her concerns.
Phys immunes do suck, yes. Though fully geared, even a sunder by itself is enough to make quick work of most. For larger uniques, 1 pt in Magic Arrow blows them up quick enough. Come a Protector's Stone added, let alone a -res renewed sunder, you're more than set either way as you drop the res far enough to keep wrecking everything.
Now, with that in mind, given the (perhaps future) assumption of proper gear, you really don't want to waste points on Valkyrie. And you really don't want an A1 merc. A1 mercs with Faith are a fantastic addition to a WF zon in theory. In reality however, a properly geared one will be clearing and moving so fast that no A1 merc can keep up (even with Hysteria + run helmet), meaning you constantly outrange the merc's fana, rendering her useless. An A2 might/Pride merc is far superior here as (given Hysteria), they're quick enough to stay in range in nearly any situation. Might is generally optional in that case as for most normal runs, he'll never get a chance to proc it (due to 0 hits on anything) and you won't be missing it. But for the added fun of it, esp. in longer runs I suppose, now that shards are a thing, have him solo the first pack to proc his might and enjoy the ride. The valk is pointless for much the same reasons as once your zon is properly built, no walk will ever even come close to touching even a single target before they all die, excluding only certain bosses (depending on how you go about them).
Simply put, otherwise potentially endless rant aside, top-end zons (both, Faith and WF) are crazy strong and the only help they might possibly justifiably deserve is with regards to travel speed. Entry level zons however suffer the same fate as entry level barbs and really most entry level physical dmg dealers as they are simply rather on the weak side without (enough of) the right gear. They essentially (nearly) all trade a caster's +skill dependence (which is far easier to get going) for a more general gear dependence.
Funny enough though, despite the curve being steeper, meaning you need more of your top-end gear to close in on proper performance, the actual total value/cost/whatever of a bowzon's top-end loadout is typically far lower/cheaper than that of say a sorc or hammerdin, let alone a lock (though those are obviously still heavily inflated). At least excluding for a second the current insanity of a Latent Bone Break *cough*.
Meaining a Bowazon who's gear is far more expensive than any other class and build to make up for their lack of powerSchnorki wrote: 2 hours ago
A properly geared and decently leveled WF zon will completely and utterly annihilate any content you throw at it with the exception of ubers, which tend to take a more specific type of build to go after (but can then absolutely also be handled by a bowzon).
when compared to all other classes with lesser gear.
Last season my first build was a FoH paladin with Conviction, and with pretty much trash gear (some +skills) i was able to annihilate
most farms in hell, Andarial hell on farm, Sanctum on farm..
But since you appear to have much more knowledge of a functioning Bowazon using Windforce , i would greatly appreciate some pointers
unless they're the same old "you need these impossible to get runewords" ... If it's gear that can be traded, ok.
If i need to farm for 2000 hours to get runes for my bowazon to work, it just proves my point.
I guess that depends on how you define "impossible to get".Dreez wrote: 2 hours agoMeaining a Bowazon who's gear is far more expensive than any other class and build to make up for their lack of powerSchnorki wrote: 2 hours ago
A properly geared and decently leveled WF zon will completely and utterly annihilate any content you throw at it with the exception of ubers, which tend to take a more specific type of build to go after (but can then absolutely also be handled by a bowzon).
when compared to all other classes with lesser gear.
Last season my first build was a FoH paladin with Conviction, and with pretty much trash gear (some +skills) i was able to annihilate
most farms in hell, Andarial hell on farm, Sanctum on farm..
But since you appear to have much more knowledge of a functioning Bowazon using Windforce , i would greatly appreciate some pointers
unless they're the same old "you need these impossible to get runewords" ... If it's gear that can be traded, ok.
If i need to farm for 2000 hours to get runes for my bowazon to work, it just proves my point.
A bowzon has multiple let's call them "damage amplifiers" that make a very noticeable difference overall. Some cheap, some mid, some higher.
- A2 might is a very significant boost and especially earlier on absolutely worth it as your merc will still trigger it and give you a fair bit more dmg.
- Fortitude will require a Lo rune but is again a very noticeable dmg multiplier (though some still prefer Enigma, sacrificing a fair bit of dmg for Teleport).
- Pride for the above-mentioned merc will be more pricy at Cham, Sur and Lo, in addition to a proper base for it (anywhere from Ist to Lo by itself).
- Trade for some max dmg charms (sharp grand... + fine small...). They don't do much individually but in sum, they do add up noticeably. And they tend to be quite cheap to get if you're not limiting yourself to perfect ones with life on top or the like. Plus they generally come with a fair bit of AR in sum, helping with your hit chance problems.
- Get a highlord's. The deadly strike is a solid addition, especially earlier on, plus it gives you an easy 20 IAS.
- Building on the above, make sure you get to 89+ IAS so you hit the 9 frames with your multishot and such. Wf = 20, highlord's = 20, 15 IAS jewel (cheap entry without ED on it) in helmet and wf = 30, gloves = 20 -> done.
- Double Raven Frost helps dmg a bit via added dex but also adds a ton of AR which is especially helpful early on when that's still a problem.
- Drop your valk for AR/crit/ Pierce skills.
- Razortail is another cheap option to help with said Pierce.
- So is Wisdom (definitely not end-game but decent earlier on).
Really, all but the Pride and fort are fairly cheap pieces in and by themselves. And even adding in the Pride and fort, you're nowhere near the cost of say a light sorc with her griff + Infinity + light skillers + ... or non-sorc casters with Enigma++.
On the flip side, a sorc with double Spirit as a random starter setup runs circles around a zon with nothing but her bow.
Hmm, i used to play bowazon with wf before switching to Faith, she does fine in Chaos, infact ‘, she walks through Chaos on hell p1 like a walk in the park.
Chaos usually doesnt spawn phys immune often(normal mobs anyway…)
Just to be clear, i dont use 45 ias/60 ed Helm, 60 ias/160 ed armor or anything, the standaed bowazon gears.
Layingof hands
Andy Helm for ias, or guil Helm
Any armor will do
Goreriders
Any rings with dex and ar
Highlord ammy ir any dex ar + skills ammulet
With standard gears above, i was able to do Chaos with zero issue with multishots.
-enough pts into your passive that gets u 50+ crit helps
-i also have 1 pt into Charged Strike/Spirit shield on switch for single target like bosses or strong monster. Eventually i pour some pts into this as well. Or use a monaech and socket some cheap 4x 3/5 lightning facets helps alot.
Overall, yes bowazon is abit a slower than other teleporting classes, vut compare to other melee and “walking” classes, she does extremely well with a bow.
A note, now i am playing warlock with mini multishot, he’s actually giving my multishot amazon a run for the money
Chaos usually doesnt spawn phys immune often(normal mobs anyway…)
Just to be clear, i dont use 45 ias/60 ed Helm, 60 ias/160 ed armor or anything, the standaed bowazon gears.
Layingof hands
Andy Helm for ias, or guil Helm
Any armor will do
Goreriders
Any rings with dex and ar
Highlord ammy ir any dex ar + skills ammulet
With standard gears above, i was able to do Chaos with zero issue with multishots.
-enough pts into your passive that gets u 50+ crit helps
-i also have 1 pt into Charged Strike/Spirit shield on switch for single target like bosses or strong monster. Eventually i pour some pts into this as well. Or use a monaech and socket some cheap 4x 3/5 lightning facets helps alot.
Overall, yes bowazon is abit a slower than other teleporting classes, vut compare to other melee and “walking” classes, she does extremely well with a bow.
A note, now i am playing warlock with mini multishot, he’s actually giving my multishot amazon a run for the money
Can trade on PC or SWITCH
WWS + Atma's Scarab .
Witchyzon...the little bow that could.
https://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Guide:Wi ... _by_Chipmc
Witchyzon...the little bow that could.
https://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Guide:Wi ... _by_Chipmc
With witchwild bow, multishot, it only procs on the first 2 inner Arrows? Other spreaded Arrows do not proc amplify curse i believe… even it procs, the radius for lvl 1 amplify is kind of small to make witchy useful for multishots?Skaijuice wrote: 1 hour agoWWS + Atma's Scarab .
Witchyzon...the little bow that could.
https://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Guide:Wi ... _by_Chipmc
Can trade on PC or SWITCH
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