But, It is taking some time to clear the areas, unless I keep casting Blood Boil to help (even with only a single point on it - as a pre-requisite to Bind Demon - it is making a big difference)...
The point is, I'm having the same felling I had with the necro summoner: against multiples enemies, minions are just meat shield and your Corpse Explosion (or in this case Blood Boil) is that really kills the mobs...
It is just an impression, because I'm still leveling, or it is the real deal with this build... if it is the case (for general farming - not Boss killing), would probably be better another build (maybe Blood Boil - so I still keep 3 demons... - https://maxroll.gg/d2/guides/blood-boil-warlock-guide )
But, It is taking some time to clear the areas, unless I keep casting Blood Boil to help (even with only a single point on it - as a pre-requisite to Bind Demon - it is making a big difference)...
The point is, I'm having the same felling I had with the necro summoner: against multiples enemies, minions are just meat shield and your Corpse Explosion (or in this case Blood Boil) is that really kills the mobs...
It is just an impression, because I'm still leveling, or it is the real deal with this build... if it is the case (for general farming - not Boss killing), would probably be better another build (maybe Blood Boil - so I still keep 3 demons... - https://maxroll.gg/d2/guides/blood-boil-warlock-guide )
The summoner gets much stronger the moment you bind a good monster. But I don't think we can expect Corpse Explosion-like madness.
I have a cursed demon now, so I work with 1 Goatman, 1 Defiler and the merc. For hard single targets, I swap to 2 Goatmen. Always have your guys engorged for the IAS.
On the long run I will swap the A2 merc for something with AoE damage (A1 or A3), but for now, he is of use as a might spender and personal bodyguard.
I screwed up a few points since this is my original walkthrough build, I didn't respec once, but I have a good companion now. So I am waiting to be killed, haha.
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Idk if u ask me all those points in the summon tree are kind of unnecessary, because you can still have tanky summons with enough points left over to invest heavily into Fire Warlock or Eldritch.
HCL nintendo switch 6276-3649-1595 Bnet: CoralViper#114373
i have pure summon lvl 91 now. i work like a Nova sorc or poison necro, i tp through the map, nuke everything with bloodboil and take less then 10 sec for terrorized act bosses. it is absolutely playable and very enjoyable at that
i have pure summon lvl 91 now. i work like a Nova sorc or poison necro, i tp through the map, nuke everything with bloodboil and take less then 10 sec for terrorized act bosses. it is absolutely playable and very enjoyable at that
i have pure summon lvl 91 now. i work like a Nova sorc or poison necro, i tp through the map, nuke everything with bloodboil and take less then 10 sec for terrorized act bosses. it is absolutely playable and very enjoyable at that
It is in the "summoning" tree, its just called "demon" for wl also it does revolve highly around your summons as the dmg only happens through them, i d say it very much is a pure summoners build, without summons i also cant Blood Boil
also yes i did, Demonic Mastery, Blood Oath, Death Mark, Blood Boil and Engorge get maxed out, after i prob throw the rest into Bind Demon. but with Enigma its like a Nova sorc with benefits, you Teleport and spam Blood Boil but with the nice perk that when you get into a pickle, you can reposition the wall of flesh that is also the center of your "Nova" ^^ so far i found bound demons with either cursed and/or Conviction aura to be the strongest with this build, but it is true that it mostly evolves around Blood Boil. you are limited to 3 summons anyway though so "minion master" at a scale as with necro or druid isnt possible ^^
I'm curious, genuine question if anyone has tested, how does the kill speed of these summoner warlocks compare to Eldritch who has maxed out Mirrored Blades and High CB?
My currently warlock build has 10 points into most of the important summon skills and is using upgraded Shael'd Ribcracker, SpiritMonarch, CovenHelm, Enigma, Gore Rider, deaths guard + hand upgraded combo, maxed out Mirrored Blades, and few other things of note I cant recall ATM. In terms of boss killing speed, I haven't taken a stopwatch or anything like that but he appears to be possibly as fast or maybe faster than a smiter, and on top of that Echoing Strike more or less obliterates everything in sight with the help an Extra Strong + Extra Fast + Fanaticism enchanted + cursed Hephasto the Armorer tear-assing all over the friggin place cursing everything on the screen.
If i were a fire warlock id be using Conviction aura Hephasto and maxed out Apocalypse + all synergies, which leaves more than enough for 10+ points in various demon skills.
Just wondering if a full Summoner is really worth it by comparison.
HCL nintendo switch 6276-3649-1595 Bnet: CoralViper#114373
Would a full summoner actually work? I mean, you can have only 3 demons at best. Is going to be very slow to kill things unless you do most of the heavy lifting with your other spells?
Would a full summoner actually work? I mean, you can have only 3 demons at best. Is going to be very slow to kill things unless you do most of the heavy lifting with your other spells?
I haven't played it yet, so I'm theorizing from what I already know about the Demons skills.
To help your demons, you can use Sigil Death for clearing mobs, not very fast but should be ok. Killing bosses would take time, but since some bound demons are basically unkillable (some can solo Uber Tristram), your enemies will always lose after some time as long as you can stay alive. But with lots of points into Blood Oath, that should work. You can help with Sigil Lethargy and Engorge if there are some corpses available. Blood Boil (life loss mitigated by Engorge) obviously also works at higher levels, as someone has claimed here.
It's definitely a build that should work. I will try it out some time.
Would a full summoner actually work? I mean, you can have only 3 demons at best. Is going to be very slow to kill things unless you do most of the heavy lifting with your other spells?
I haven't played it yet, so I'm theorizing from what I already know about the Demons skills.
To help your demons, you can use Sigil Death for clearing mobs, not very fast but should be ok. Killing bosses would take time, but since some bound demons are basically unkillable (some can solo Uber Tristram), your enemies will always lose after some time as long as you can stay alive. But with lots of points into Blood Oath, that should work. You can help with Sigil Lethargy and Engorge if there are some corpses available. Blood Boil (life loss mitigated by Engorge) obviously also works at higher levels, as someone has claimed here.
It's definitely a build that should work. I will try it out some time.
I love summoner classes as is, every game if its possible to use summoner im always going for it. Necromancer with summon build is my favourite build (or was before they made summons to unsummon if they are too far from the player so you must have Teleport to keep them properly alive or end up re-summoning something constantly)
Kind of expected a bit more summons for demonology, but just 3 maximum, two if you want to have a buff which you most likely do.
I dont know which demons are unkillable as ive only used the hephasto.
If you can get 20 points into demon bind so that your Bind Demon can automatically get aura enchanted, spectral hit, extra strong, and extra fast, you just need to find a good bind and it can work pretty well. I actually think investing in demon mastery + demon bind + some points into defiler until you can get 5 targets bound for each hit, this is better than investing points into Blood Boil. I initially thought that it'd be like Summon necro where you just need the first kill and Blood Boil would do the actual killing - however, Blood Boil requires a lot of points to be worthwhile, I feel. I think only if you max out Blood Boil and both synergies, it's decent. I was struggling to level up this build in ladder, so switched to put more points into the demon bind early on instead, and it has worked out better for me, at least at level 83 or so with very little to no gear. Hephasto is very good, but I found a reddit post recommending a terrorized lancer unique that sometimes comes out in ancients way and tried her out.. (the name is Gloom pus the Wraith) and she absolutely slaps. She is already so fast, and as long as you find a cursed one, with 20 points in demon bind, she can get Fanaticism too. I ended up doing a few runs while ancient ways was terrorized yesterday, and was able to bind one and got cursed and Fanaticism. She zaps through the entire map super fast, and jabs too, which ends up doing way faster and more damage than hephasto maybe. And with two defilers also summoned, you pretty much clear 10 at a time pretty fast.
Obviously not as fast or strong as the Echoing Strike build, but I have actually enjoyed this build way more than fire or Abyss warlock.
So I am out of re-specs for this ladder character as I was experimenting all kinds of builds, but I am starting to think that Blood Boil is almost unnecessary. Before I even do much damage with Blood Boil, I just Death Mark her into mobs and they just melt. Even terrorized diablo got melted pretty quickly (altho it was only p1). If you have enough +skills with good gear, I think you can almost just put a few points into defiler to get 5 bound targets, enough to get 20 soft points to demon bind, same with demon mastery, and be set. You may have enough points left over to almost max out Echoing Strike and its synergies.. so you'd be a Beast with a bound demon with all extra stuff for sure while spitting out nasty Echoing Strike damage yourself. May have to try this later on once I have enough gear on ladder
edit:
here's the lancer unique that I think may be the best Bind Demon target
Would a full summoner actually work? I mean, you can have only 3 demons at best. Is going to be very slow to kill things unless you do most of the heavy lifting with your other spells?
2 defilers binding 10 monsters + 1 hard hitter. Clear speed is decent
I use 2 defilers + 1 hephasto (cursed is a must + either Fanaticism/might or if you use bloodboil Conviction is fine)
Max Bind Demon, Demon Mastery, Blood Oath and Blood Boil. Defiler only needs 1 point because diminishing returns hit early
Good to know that its actually playable. I was planning on trying the fire & Void as separated characters fully concentrated on their elements and perhaps the summon aswell if it was actually a thing and right now it does seem like a good idea to try out.
This is my initial question...
Is Warlock "pure summoner" (minions + buff/debuffs) an "OK build", or need to add Blood Boil (or Sigil Death or other "attack spell") to the mix?
For comparison , I don't think Necromancer "pure summoner" is an "OK build" (for "regular farming"/"clear areas"), you do need to add Corpse Explosion for it to be an "OK build"...
But, according to @its60cent Warlock "pure summoner" works
Would a full summoner actually work? I mean, you can have only 3 demons at best. Is going to be very slow to kill things unless you do most of the heavy lifting with your other spells?
If you can get 20 points into demon bind so that your Bind Demon can automatically get aura enchanted, spectral hit, extra strong, and extra fast, you just need to find a good bind and it can work pretty well. I actually think investing in demon mastery + demon bind + some points into defiler until you can get 5 targets bound for each hit, this is better than investing points into Blood Boil. I initially thought that it'd be like Summon necro where you just need the first kill and Blood Boil would do the actual killing - however, Blood Boil requires a lot of points to be worthwhile, I feel. I think only if you max out Blood Boil and both synergies, it's decent. I was struggling to level up this build in ladder, so switched to put more points into the demon bind early on instead, and it has worked out better for me, at least at level 83 or so with very little to no gear. Hephasto is very good, but I found a reddit post recommending a terrorized lancer unique that sometimes comes out in ancients way and tried her out.. (the name is gloom pus the wraith) and she absolutely slaps. She is already so fast, and as long as you find a cursed one, with 20 points in demon bind, she can get Fanaticism too. I ended up doing a few runs while ancient ways was terrorized yesterday, and was able to bind one and got cursed and Fanaticism. She zaps through the entire map super fast, and jabs too, which ends up doing way faster and more damage than hephasto maybe. And with two defilers also summoned, you pretty much clear 10 at a time pretty fast.
Obviously not as fast or strong as the Echoing Strike build, but I have actually enjoyed this build way more than fire or Abyss warlock.
So I am out of re-specs for this ladder character as I was experimenting all kinds of builds, but I am starting to think that Blood Boil is almost unnecessary. Before I even do much damage with Blood Boil, I just Death Mark her into mobs and they just melt. Even terrorized diablo got melted pretty quickly (altho it was only p1). If you have enough +skills with good gear, I think you can almost just put a few points into defiler to get 5 bound targets, enough to get 20 soft points to demon bind, same with demon mastery, and be set. You may have enough points left over to almost max out Echoing Strike and its synergies.. so you'd be a Beast with a bound demon with all extra stuff for sure while spitting out nasty Echoing Strike damage yourself. May have to try this later on once I have enough gear on ladder
edit: Screenshot039.png
here's the lancer unique that I think may be the best Bind Demon target
Pure summoner definitely works, and Blood Boil is not a must. I actually found that I was clearing things faster with just a tz dark lancer bind with 20 points into demon bind rather than when i was leveling up first trying to max Blood Boil and its synergies first. Blood Boil definitely helps once you max everything out, but a good demon bind + 10 targets bound with two defilers is more important at first I think. Here's a post that inspired me to try it: https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo_2_Resur ... ken_build/
This is my initial question...
Is Warlock "pure summoner" (minions + buff/debuffs) an "OK build", or need to add Blood Boil (or Sigil Death or other "attack spell") to the mix?
For comparison , I don't think Necromancer "pure summoner" is an "OK build" (for "regular farming"/"clear areas"), you do need to add Corpse Explosion for it to be an "OK build"...
But, according to @its60cent Warlock "pure summoner" works
Would a full summoner actually work? I mean, you can have only 3 demons at best. Is going to be very slow to kill things unless you do most of the heavy lifting with your other spells?
If you can get 20 points into demon bind so that your Bind Demon can automatically get aura enchanted, spectral hit, extra strong, and extra fast, you just need to find a good bind and it can work pretty well. I actually think investing in demon mastery + demon bind + some points into defiler until you can get 5 targets bound for each hit, this is better than investing points into Blood Boil. I initially thought that it'd be like Summon necro where you just need the first kill and Blood Boil would do the actual killing - however, Blood Boil requires a lot of points to be worthwhile, I feel. I think only if you max out Blood Boil and both synergies, it's decent. I was struggling to level up this build in ladder, so switched to put more points into the demon bind early on instead, and it has worked out better for me, at least at level 83 or so with very little to no gear. Hephasto is very good, but I found a reddit post recommending a terrorized lancer unique that sometimes comes out in ancients way and tried her out.. (the name is Gloom pus the Wraith) and she absolutely slaps. She is already so fast, and as long as you find a cursed one, with 20 points in demon bind, she can get Fanaticism too. I ended up doing a few runs while ancient ways was terrorized yesterday, and was able to bind one and got cursed and Fanaticism. She zaps through the entire map super fast, and jabs too, which ends up doing way faster and more damage than hephasto maybe. And with two defilers also summoned, you pretty much clear 10 at a time pretty fast.
Obviously not as fast or strong as the Echoing Strike build, but I have actually enjoyed this build way more than fire or Abyss warlock.
So I am out of re-specs for this ladder character as I was experimenting all kinds of builds, but I am starting to think that Blood Boil is almost unnecessary. Before I even do much damage with Blood Boil, I just Death Mark her into mobs and they just melt. Even terrorized diablo got melted pretty quickly (altho it was only p1). If you have enough +skills with good gear, I think you can almost just put a few points into defiler to get 5 bound targets, enough to get 20 soft points to demon bind, same with demon mastery, and be set. You may have enough points left over to almost max out Echoing Strike and its synergies.. so you'd be a Beast with a bound demon with all extra stuff for sure while spitting out nasty Echoing Strike damage yourself. May have to try this later on once I have enough gear on ladder
edit: Screenshot039.png
here's the lancer unique that I think may be the best Bind Demon target
True that!
Necromancer cant really move well as PURE summon. Needs the CE and what not.
But compared to necro summons, the warlocks summon(s) seem to be way more powerful in dmg and the binded demon definitely is tougher and stronger than anything summoned from anything else before.
Suppose Warlock PURE summon could work even without the summon-side dmg spells but it ofc would be tedious and slow going.
Having gone full summons on my ladder lock to get him through and leveled, summoner locks massively outperform necro summons and the like. At least at early to mid gear.
You don't need corpses.
You don't split your dmg over countless targets because instead of massive armies of individually weaker summons you get 3 fairly strong ones.
You can focus them on a single target even without telestomping.
You can heal them if needed.
You get an insanely strong Bind Demon replacing one of them.
Between that bound demon's amp and sigil: lethargy, the dmg of your bound demon, your goats and your merc just goes through the roof.
And unlike other summons, goats actually get a Cleave attack for at least some aoe. And while that obviously isn't comparable to proper aoe skills, it does regularly catch and blow up extra critters next to the larger targets, speeding things up noticeably.
Sure, they're still just summoners and as such primarily single target focused (not counting Blood Boil as a summoner build, seeing how that's not about the summons anymore) so they'll never compete with many other lock builds or some other classes' aoe builds. But as far as summoner builds go, they're extremely strong, even with 0 gear. Early on, a single goat easily handles everything. And once you get a bit higher and can add a bound fana-cursed heph or the like, they all start going nuts and plow through the entire game no questions asked, including things like dclone at little to no gear.
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