Latent sunder charm droprates

the fact that they gated legacy d2 and rotw is a fantastic choice IMO and didn't force the update or merge the choices.

I don't really agree with the idea of being able to convert ladder characters during the ladder, but i also really don't care i guess. Playing offline I still have all my old sunders so it's no issue. I have killed a TON of heralds and still haven't seen one, but i think that's what makes D2 so unique, is the grind for items.

That being said - i'd certainly be okay if they doubled the drop rate of latent sunders...yes i may be a hypocrite

Salty and entitled. Fine.

I think the drop ods are ok. Maybe on the low side, but ok. Gives me something to do on NL. Something to chase.

The reason for why I keep coming back to this game is, that I haven't found everything yet.

I have a question about drop mechanics. Let's say I'm in a game with two other people independently hunting heralds. A

Herald spawns for 1 person, then all 3 of us come together for the kill. Is the NoDrop based on essentially P3, since that's how it spawned, or P5, since that's how it was killed?

jgrilly wrote: 23 hours ago

I have a question about drop mechanics. Let's say I'm in a game with two other people independently hunting heralds. A

Herald spawns for 1 person, then all 3 of us come together for the kill. Is the NoDrop based on essentially P3, since that's how it spawned, or P5, since that's how it was killed?

Important to focus on the graph above. You have /playercountx in game, and then you have /partysizex as well.

These variables influence the NoDrop %.

If you have 3 total players in the game, and 3 parties players, you need to be in the same area of the kill to gain the benefit.

If it is only you, and the other two were not present, then that is a /Players3 /Party1 NoDrop. If all if you were there, then it is /players3 /party3.

In then the sunder chart example above:

Players3 / Party1 = You have to kill 1 in 119 Heralds to get "Any Latent Sunder"

Players3 / Party3 = You have to kill 1 in 80 Heralds to get "Any Latent Sunder"

Hope this helped

War The Wise wrote: 23 hours ago

Players3 / Party1 = You have to kill 1 in 119 Heralds to get "Any Latent Sunder"

Players3 / Party3 = You have to kill 1 in 80 Heralds to get "Any Latent Sunder"

Hope this helped

Thx for the further infos! This does mean that when I have a

Herald in the game, still alive and I get two further players to join my game and we all three are near the

Herald when he is killed the 3/3 bonus will be applied, right?

I was excited at first about having the new content, now that I know better my opinion has done 180. Problem with Sunders and Statues is not the RNG per se, but the path to obtain them is simply flawed to levels of stupidity. Often used critique I have seen used with D4 is "Do the devs even play their own game?". I think the Sunder/Statue gives an answer to that, or rather the designer was simply ignorant to how the mass of D2 players play this game.

Players group together to trade, to level, to rush/walk. or even do quests. What they historically do not do is MF/farm. Most players are essentially solo P1rs. In the season past I found several Sunders, 2x Fire & 1x Cold which made me think to make a Cold Sorc.

Key here is that I found these just playing the game. ROTW introduced mechanic that I just find idiotic.

• Sunders - No longer can the player just play the game, or play how THEY have found over the years works best. What people do now is use a Shard to which they have to spend hours and hours clearing entire areas in hopes
  Herald spawns. On P1 this is a miserable experience. Alternatively some report just staying in the same game waiting for an area to be Terrorized in hopes of finding a
  Herald, many are reporting back spending hours in the game.

• Statues/New Ubers. This too is another "WTF were they thinking moment. So the statue can only be found on bosses...check, OK. But it can only be a boss whose area is Terrorized. Huh? What? WTF were they thinking. Here too, you not only need to deal with RNG of a drop, but the RNG you may get a boss zone terrorized while you are playing. This may take 2-3 hours between rotation. Could it get any worse? Well that challenge was accepted as the TZs are now 30 minutes, so ....30 min to farm. Good luck farming
  Duriel if that is the only TZ you get in a day.

I am happy to see a game that has lived with me for almost half my life get updated with new content. I like the Warlock, I like the skills and the play. I LOVE the QOL changes. Both of what I listed above just goes against the grain of how people have played this game for decades. Maybe you the reader may be different, I am describing how the vast majority have played this game for decades. Player creates game, they go to the areas they find or desire to farm. These are usually bosses or areas like Chaos/Trav that get cleared. Just like how 26 years on we are still killing cows. What we do not do except on a lark is spend hours in the same game clearing every little creature in hopes of a good drop.

Reporting to disagree duty!:)

So i'm the one who actually enjoys exactly what bothers you. And yes, I'm online P1 player mostly.

- Sunders - ok, I have to give it to you that they are little too hard to find. BUT they're not obligatory to play the game. Given you can simply trade for the old ones those few extra stats on renewed charms are not game changing.
And yes, I like running those full TZ Acts. Thanks to this mechanic first time in 20 years i had a reason to do full act clearing and I enjoyed it.

- Statues from TZ bosses are exacty what speaks to me, because now I have extra goal in killing big boss and honestly it was always my thing to do in this game. Running those zones as fast as i can with stronger monsters thanks to new TZs and rethinking my patterns gave me a lot of fun. I like random Heralds on my way that make it even harder.
Optimizing routes to bosses was something i focused first in recent days. I will posting on this soon.

They way we should look at those new challenges is to really enjoy the way to the prize which actually SHOULD take long. Instant gratification would be disapointing. Even more, having any of those things (Sunders/Statues/Jewels) easy would kill any joy for me. And when I think about what this game always was is exactly that what I try to say: slow grind toward target.

PS It's second week of ROTW and first week of ladder. And people complain they're not having endgame stuff yet. So who's wrong here:)

War The Wise wrote: 23 hours ago

jgrilly wrote: 23 hours ago

I have a question about drop mechanics. Let's say I'm in a game with two other people independently hunting heralds. A

Herald spawns for 1 person, then all 3 of us come together for the kill. Is the NoDrop based on essentially P3, since that's how it spawned, or P5, since that's how it was killed?

Important to focus on the graph above. You have /playercountx in game, and then you have /partysizex as well.

These variables influence the NoDrop %.

If you have 3 total players in the game, and 3 parties players, you need to be in the same area of the kill to gain the benefit.

If it is only you, and the other two were not present, then that is a /Players3 /Party1 NoDrop. If all if you were there, then it is /players3 /party3.

In then the sunder chart example above:

Players3 / Party1 = You have to kill 1 in 119 Heralds to get "Any Latent Sunder"

Players3 / Party3 = You have to kill 1 in 80 Heralds to get "Any Latent Sunder"

Hope this helped

It does help, thank you. I just wasn't clear on whether the drops were based on the relative player count / location when
1. Monster is spawned, or
2. Monster is slain.

This clears it up.

War The Wise wrote: 1 day ago

[..]
The only thing that was adjusted was the Token of the Ire an the

Conversion to

Herald Spawn. The 2% and 1% respectively.
[..]

2% and 1%...of what?
Curious to know the actual list of "possible trigger actions" that percentage refers to for

Herald spawning.

Biggest let down for me here isn't really the "total chance of sunders" so much as the extreme rarity of heralds themselves, regardless of their subsequent sunder drop chance.
They did kinda advertise them as a new big thing and challenge to strive for after all. Something actually hard to beat. So...let us actually take on that challenge and fight them?! I've never understood the concept of actively gating higher difficulty content behind extensive low difficulty content.

Schnorki wrote: 21 hours ago

War The Wise wrote: 1 day ago

[..]
The only thing that was adjusted was the Token of the Ire an the

Conversion to

Herald Spawn. The 2% and 1% respectively.
[..]

2% and 1%...of what?
Curious to know the actual list of "possible trigger actions" that percentage refers to for

Herald spawning.

Biggest let down for me here isn't really the "total chance of sunders" so much as the extreme rarity of heralds themselves, regardless of their subsequent sunder drop chance.
They did kinda advertise them as a new big thing and challenge to strive for after all. Something actually hard to beat. So...let us actually take on that challenge and fight them?! I've never understood the concept of actively gating higher difficulty content behind extensive low difficulty content.

I show it in the short here - and Pavke and I have the full intention of co-working on a extremely thorough video on this given all the immense confusion, and misinformation floating around forums on all things Heralds & Sunders. This is a reminder to myself that I need to kick this into high gear.



We found this in the game files, so no we didn't just pull these numbers out of thin air.

There is a 2% chance to trigger an Ire of the

Herald. From there, through further map exploration/killing, you then have a 1% chance to convert the Ire into a

Herald Spawn.

Early anecdotes felt like 5-7%, but the more we dug, and did some insider checks, the 2% and 1% seems to be valid. Anything else is just cognitive bias.

Schnorki wrote: 21 hours ago

Biggest let down for me here isn't really the "total chance of sunders" so much as the extreme rarity of heralds themselves, regardless of their subsequent sunder drop chance.

Just another factor that made me not wish to participate. Almost D4 level of stacking RNG.

When I search for T-H-D I do not need deal with RNG whether Countess or Nik will be there. Even if we get a

Herald, even if we get to Tier 5, still gotta add that RNG of it maybe will drop (on P1 likelihood nonexistant).

Or think about this. How about if Uber Tristam had these drop rates for the Torch?

War The Wise wrote: 2 hours ago

Schnorki wrote: 21 hours ago

War The Wise wrote: 1 day ago

[..]
The only thing that was adjusted was the Token of the Ire an the

Conversion to

Herald Spawn. The 2% and 1% respectively.
[..]

2% and 1%...of what?
Curious to know the actual list of "possible trigger actions" that percentage refers to for

Herald spawning.

Biggest let down for me here isn't really the "total chance of sunders" so much as the extreme rarity of heralds themselves, regardless of their subsequent sunder drop chance.
They did kinda advertise them as a new big thing and challenge to strive for after all. Something actually hard to beat. So...let us actually take on that challenge and fight them?! I've never understood the concept of actively gating higher difficulty content behind extensive low difficulty content.

I show it in the short here - and Pavke and I have the full intention of co-working on a extremely thorough video on this given all the immense confusion, and misinformation floating around forums on all things Heralds & Sunders. This is a reminder to myself that I need to kick this into high gear.



We found this in the game files, so no we didn't just pull these numbers out of thin air.

There is a 2% chance to trigger an Ire of the

Herald. From there, through further map exploration/killing, you then have a 1% chance to convert the Ire into a

Herald Spawn.

Early anecdotes felt like 5-7%, but the more we dug, and did some insider checks, the 2% and 1% seems to be valid. Anything else is just cognitive bias.

You just got "2%" and "1%" in there though. The "% of what?" is still missing.
E.g. 2%...on a unique kill? any kill? switching into a new TZ? champ kill? minion kill? ...
1%...on finding a new unique pack? champ pack? any mob? single mobs? per mob pack? new area? ...

There's tons of very much disagreeing information floating around about all of that still.

Schnorki wrote: 1 hour ago

War The Wise wrote: 2 hours ago

Schnorki wrote: 21 hours ago

2% and 1%...of what?
Curious to know the actual list of "possible trigger actions" that percentage refers to for

Herald spawning.

Biggest let down for me here isn't really the "total chance of sunders" so much as the extreme rarity of heralds themselves, regardless of their subsequent sunder drop chance.
They did kinda advertise them as a new big thing and challenge to strive for after all. Something actually hard to beat. So...let us actually take on that challenge and fight them?! I've never understood the concept of actively gating higher difficulty content behind extensive low difficulty content.

I show it in the short here - and Pavke and I have the full intention of co-working on a extremely thorough video on this given all the immense confusion, and misinformation floating around forums on all things Heralds & Sunders. This is a reminder to myself that I need to kick this into high gear.



We found this in the game files, so no we didn't just pull these numbers out of thin air.

There is a 2% chance to trigger an Ire of the

Herald. From there, through further map exploration/killing, you then have a 1% chance to convert the Ire into a

Herald Spawn.

Early anecdotes felt like 5-7%, but the more we dug, and did some insider checks, the 2% and 1% seems to be valid. Anything else is just cognitive bias.

You just got "2%" and "1%" in there though. The "% of what?" is still missing.
E.g. 2%...on a unique kill? any kill? switching into a new TZ? champ kill? minion kill? ...
1%...on finding a new unique pack? champ pack? any mob? single mobs? per mob pack? new area? ...

There's tons of very much disagreeing information floating around about all of that still.

Sorry, will try to give some more clarity - this is based on myself, nishi, pavke, and others discussing and sharing observations.

You have a 2% chance to spawn the Ire on an Elite KILL and ONLY and elite kill (I would have to watch my videos to see if minions were included more closely).

You then have a 1% chance to convert the internal token to a

Herald, but this requires exploration. I tested this. I stood still after the IRE for minutes and nothing happened. It wasn't until I continued to explore the area, or sub areas, and killing that it spawned.

Some people have come up empty handed b/c they already cleared the entire rea. But, when a new TZ came, and they started farming, it converted so it does seem that once the "token" is acquired, you don't lose it. This is nice.

This then validates the entirety of the new Shard mechanic. This is why you smash Shards to TZ an entire act so you can continue hunting/chaining and scaling the Tier of

Herald.

This is why I do want to make a video on all of this. I agree with you. There is WAY too much misinformation being tossed around.

What do we know 100% are false claims right now definitively...

A) "Sunders only drop from Tier4 and Tier5": Offline YES, Online NO (All Tiers of Heralds can Drop a Sunder)

B) "Sunder drop rates get better with Tiering of

Herald": False, Sunder drop rates do not change by Tier

C) "Heralds spawn way more than 1%": Well, not according to direct data mining locally for offline. And while we don't know server side governance, this gives us a strong directional proxy.

How are Heralds Spawning?

A) Exploration of areas/maps

B) It seems the Token of Ire is carrying forward to other areas when TZd if you still haven't triggered the

Herald Spawn

Conversion

C) Heralds can spawn on any monster type at random inside of that map via the 1% chance.

War The Wise wrote: 1 hour ago

[..]
You then have a 1% chance to convert the internal token to a

Herald, but this requires exploration and killing. I tested this. I stood still after the IRE for minutes and nothing happened. It wasn't until I continued to explore the area, or sub areas, and killing that it spawned.
[..]

Actually, that part I can guarantee you is not accurate. The "and killing" after getting an ire is entirely optional. Specifically tested that myself. Kinda went "odd..can't remember even killing anything to proc this one" the first time and then made it a point to test for a few Ire procs thereafter: If all you do after ire procs is

Teleport and explore, killing exactly 0 things along the way, the

Herald does still spawn.

Schnorki wrote: 1 hour ago

War The Wise wrote: 1 hour ago

[..]
You then have a 1% chance to convert the internal token to a

Herald, but this requires exploration and killing. I tested this. I stood still after the IRE for minutes and nothing happened. It wasn't until I continued to explore the area, or sub areas, and killing that it spawned.
[..]

Actually, that part I can guarantee you is not accurate. The "and killing" after getting an ire is entirely optional. Specifically tested that myself. Kinda went "odd..can't remember even killing anything to proc this one" the first time and then made it a point to test after a few Ire procs thereafter: If all you do after Ire procs is

Teleport and explore, killing exactly 0 things along the way, the

Herald does still spawn.

Correct. I didn't mean to suggest you had to kill sorry. I was just exploring & killing along the way tied together

Agreed 100%. Exploration is the

Key here.

I forget where I was....I think I was in

Cold Plains, Ire spawned, map was cleared, TZ switched to Worldstone. I went there, and BAM it spawned. So that is why I do believe the internal Ire "Token" remains and carries through which checks out.

ShadowHeart wrote: 1 hour ago

Yeah in my experience killing is only necessary for acquiring the tokens. To convert them to heralds you only need to explore (enter maps, move about).

Also, the 1% is for ANY mob to be replaced by a

Herald, even a trash mob can be replaced. If you enter a map that you haven't visited yet when you have at least one "token" (drawn ire), and there's 50 monsters close to the entrance, there's a 1% roll for each of those 50 monsters immediately upon entry.

Yup! Spot on.

I updated my post above with some new sections that i'll repost down here:

What do we know 100% are false claims right now:

A) "Sunders only drop from Tier4 and Tier5": Offline YES, Online NO (All Tiers of Heralds can Drop a Sunder)

B) "Sunder drop rates get better with Tiering of

Herald": False, Sunder drop rates do not change by Tier

C) "Heralds spawn way more than 1%": Well, not according to direct data mining locally for offline. And while we don't know server side governance, this gives us a strong directional proxy.

How are Heralds Spawning?

A) Exploration of areas/maps

B) It seems the Token of Ire is carrying forward to other areas when TZd if you still haven't triggered the

Herald Spawn

Conversion

C) Heralds can spawn on any monster type at random inside of that map via the 1% chance.

Thanks for all the on-going checks & balances here. Pavke and I are like I said wanting to make a video on this and so the more crowdsourcing of intel the better. We need as many data points as possible!

War The Wise wrote: 1 hour ago

[..]
A) "Sunders only drop from Tier4 and Tier5": Offline YES, Online NO (All Tiers of Heralds can Drop a Sunder)
[..]

Speaking of tiers..does the tier of the next

Herald increase after a successful kill? Or is the spawn sufficient? And is that tied solely to spawn timing or also ire timing?

E.g. say you proc 2 ires back to back.
You then convert 1 and get a T1

Herald.
You kill that, keep exploring and get a 2nd

Herald from the 2nd ire you already had before the 1st one even spawned.
Is that 2nd

Herald now still T1 because the ire hit before the 1st spawned or died or is it T2 because T1 died before it spawned?
And if both get spawned back to back without killing either, are both then T1 or is the spawn of one T1 enough to upgrade the other to T2 already?

Nothing but questions on this whole thing..


And maybe most importantly:
What's the lvl and XP of these different tier heralds? Are they a viable lvling strat?