Can a throw barbarian full replenish an ethereal throw weapon with 100% Critical + Pierce?

Hi

As Throw mastery replenishes quantity on a critical hit.

If a barbarian reaches 100% (or almost) critical hit and 100% (or almost) Pierce (so can get more than 1 critical hit with one swing), can he guarantee replenish an ethereal throwing weapon to full?

Yes, that's exactly the mechanics you aim at triggering as throw barb.

Edit : as Atari pointed out, combined with the chance NOT to Consume.

Throwing Mastery provides a chance to not Consume quantity, critical strikes with throwing weapons now replenish quantity and a chance to Pierce. That alone can already be enough to replenish an ethereal throwing weapon. If you add additional Pierce and/or deadly strike to that you will always have a fully replenished throwing weapon.

Hold up, I thought Deadly Strike and Critical Strike did not trigger the Throwing Mastery replenish quantity effect. Do I have that wrong?

Critical Strike it's pretty sure it works, it is in the very description of the skill.

Deadly strike is supposedly the same effect, but I am not sure it works here or not.

Necrarch wrote: 2 years ago

Critical Strike it's pretty sure it works, it is in the very description of the skill.

Deadly strike is supposedly the same effect, but I am not sure it works here or not.

The Amazon Basin seems to think Critical Strike and skills like Throwing Mastery are checked separately under the hood, which would make me think Throwing Mastery would either think (1) all three are treated as crits for replenishment purposes, or (2) only crits from Throwing Mastery count.

Aelanwyr wrote: 2 years ago

Necrarch wrote: 2 years ago

Critical Strike it's pretty sure it works, it is in the very description of the skill.

Deadly strike is supposedly the same effect, but I am not sure it works here or not.

The Amazon Basin seems to think Critical Strike and skills like Throwing Mastery are checked separately under the hood, which would make me think Throwing Mastery would either think (1) all three are treated as crits for replenishment purposes, or (2) only crits from Throwing Mastery count.

If the answer is (2), it certainly seems like the game runs the check on the Throwing Mastery crit even when Deadly Strike triggers. That is, Deadly Strike doesn't seem to make the chance to replenish worse.

From what I read, Deadly Strike, Critical Strike and Masteries all test separately, but only one of those trigger on each hit (if one trigger the others are not tested)
So in practice works like if there is only on test (with the chances of different sources "grouped multiplicatively")

Take that case
https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/i03950w9

Critical Chance (Deadly Strike): 52 (37+15) | Highlord's Wrath + Guillaume's Face
Critical Chance ( Critical Strike): 32 | Level 3 | Peace and +1 skills
Critical Chance ( Throwing Mastery): 29 | Level 21

Total Critical Chance: 77%
77% = (52 + 15.36 + 9.4656)
15.36 = (100 - 52) * 32%
9.4656= (100 - 52 - 15.36) * 29%

So I assume that the Throwing Mastery effect happens when you get a Critical hit, considering the total chance and not just the Throwing Mastery chance

As the three sources are grouped multiplicatively, it is actually impossible to get 100% Critical Chance by combining the 3 sources (but you can get really close )
The only way is to get 100% is to have 100% from a single source

fredkid wrote: 2 years ago

From what I read, Deadly Strike, Critical Strike and Masteries all test separately, but only one of those trigger on each hit (if one trigger the others are not tested)
So in practice works like if there is only on test (with the chances of different sources "grouped multiplicatively")

So I assume that the Throwing Mastery effect happens when you get a Critical hit, considering the total chance and not just the Throwing Mastery chance

Correct, Throwing Mastery Critical Strike, Critical Strike oskill (from Peace), and Deadly Strike all count as critical hits for the purpose of TM's replenish on crit. They are indeed all separate rolls and only one of them can succeed at once. Crits also count as non- Consume, so any crit is guaranteed to replenish one quantity.

The chance to crit is rolled when the weapon is thrown, so piercing and critting multiple enemies doesn't replenish any more than throwing and critting at empty air.

So yeah for the OP, there's no way to 100% guarantee a crit but you can turn the odds very heavily in your favor by getting as high of a Throwing Mastery level and stacking as much Critical Strike and Deadly Strike as you can.

Highest you can get (with a skill shrine) is level 40 Throwing Mastery (33% crit strike, 62% non- Consume), level 10 Critical Strike (56% crit strike), and 87% Deadly Strike. That gives you a 0.67 * 0.38 * 0.44 * 0.13 = 0.01456312 * 100 = 1.456312% chance of consuming quantity (all crit and non- Consume rolls fail), 2.376088% chance of non- Consume (all crit rolls fail but non- Consume succeeds), and 96.1676% chance of replenishing (any crit roll succeeds). Hopefully I did the math correctly.
https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/lq57o02o

DarkMaster wrote: 2 years ago

The chance to crit is rolled when the weapon is thrown, so piercing and critting multiple enemies doesn't replenish any more than throwing and critting at empty air.

Do you mean that:
if you don't roll critical on throw the main target and everybody the attack Pierce through will take normal damage
and if you roll critical on throw the main target and everybody the attack Pierce through will take "double damage"
?

fredkid wrote: 2 years ago

DarkMaster wrote: 2 years ago

The chance to crit is rolled when the weapon is thrown, so piercing and critting multiple enemies doesn't replenish any more than throwing and critting at empty air.

Do Um mean that:
if you don't roll critical on throw the main target and everybody the attack Pierce through will take normal damage
and if you roll critical on throw the main target and everybody the attack Pierce through will take "double damage"
?

Nope, the crit chance is still rolled with every individual collision. You can not crit on the initial throw, then have it Pierce the first monster then have it crit on the second or third monster. It won't replenish any quantity though because it's still only rolled on the initial throw.

So
critical is tested on each hit (my initial thought)
But the replenish trigger may happen only on the first hit of the attack (not what I though initially)

OK

DarkMaster wrote: 2 years ago

0.67 * 0.38 * 0.44 * 0.13

Hey, what is this math, how do you calculate this? Ty!

0.67 = Chance of level 40 Throwing Mastery critical hit chance failing
0.38 = Chance of level 40 Throwing Mastery non- Consume failing
0.44 = Chance of level 10 Critical Strike critical hit chance failing
0.13 = Chance of 87% Deadly Strike failing

Having said that a better setup has been found a while ago, it was discovered that the Deadly Strike from Deathbit or Warshrike wielded in your main hand will apply for the offhand weapon *ONLY* when you use Double Throw; you can reach 100% Deadly Strike that way and thus be guaranteed to replenish the quantity of your offhand weapon.

geekboardgame wrote: 1 year ago

DarkMaster wrote: 2 years ago

0.67 * 0.38 * 0.44 * 0.13

Hey, what is this math, how do you calculate this? Ty!

The "*" is telling you multiply the decimals by each other. Or 0.67 * 0.38 * 0.44 * 0.13 = 0.01456312.

@mhlg yeah, I got it, but where did we get these numbers from? For instance what is 0.38?

DarkMaster wrote: 1 year ago

0.67 = Chance of level 40 Throwing Mastery critical hit chance failing
0.38 = Chance of level 40 Throwing Mastery non- Consume failing
0.44 = Chance of level 10 Critical Strike critical hit chance failing
0.13 = Chance of 87% Deadly Strike failing

Very well explained by DarkMaster here.

If you check at Throwing Mastery skill in he site's database, put it at level 40, then you'll see a 33% chance of critical hit.
So 67% (a.k.a 0.67 multiplier) to fail (1 - 33%).

0.44 explains the same, but with Critical Strike level 10.
0.13 is simply the complement to 1 of 87% deadly strike chance.

0.38 is the toughest, because the site has not updated the non- Consume chance, but I guess he found the info somewhere else (Amazon basin, etc.).

To fully fail and actually Consume a unit, the 4 rolls need to fail hence the multiplication of all 4 numbers.
Hope that clarifies.

Don't neglect playing a game or two on normal difficulty level should you run into a low quantity ethereal throw weapon with your barb tosser.

bigbikefan wrote: 1 year ago

Don't neglect playing a game or two on normal difficulty level should you run into a low quantity ethereal throw weapon with your barb tosser.

Is this possible to restore multiple with one throw? I have some GG Eth Javs without replenish on them, and I would like to be able to use them on my Zon back and forth. Curious if I make a throw barb if I would be able to stack DS and Crit Strike with Pierce and replenish them to full or near full.