Tell me more about charges

I have some questions about charges (and items with charges):
1) Do summons de-spawn after an item with charges is removed? -I assume yes.
2) Does anything affects synergies/levels of summons made from charges? -I assume it only works when casted by appropriate class that has that skill in skill tree...
3) Is there a way to calculate online how much would it cost for 1 charge on an item when repairing it (or do I have to manually check in-game after using 1 said charge on each item)?

Thanks in advance!

Necrarch wrote: 2 years ago

2- Synergies do work whatever the way you get them. If you get an item with Golem Mastery oskill (I think it does NOT exist, but just for the example) and a Metalgrid, your +to Golem Mastery will be kept on your Golem AND you can them remove the item providing Mastery (but do remember that Golem is respawned every game so you'd better put back the Mastery before quitting).

But it only works for Oskills right? I'm asking this because I read somewhere (can't really remember where) that if you have an Oskill that you are using and you equip something with +skill even tho it's from different class and you can't use that particular skill it still provides the synergy for the Oskill. For example, if you'd have Passion on a Barb and used Zeal skill if you would equip something like a Scepter that adds +3 Sacrifice (Paladin only) even tho you couldn't use Sacrifice as a skill on your Barb it would still provide that bonus as a synergy to Zeal because Zeal is Oskill. I know it sounded really odd when I read that, like it doesn't sound right, but who am I to question it (I am kinda questioning it's validity rn)...

Or in my case, I'm asking if that's true, does it also work for charges as well? For example, in my case, if I were to equip Crescent Moon on Necro and Summon Spirit Wolf from charges, would it be beneficial to also use, for example, +3 Summoning skills (Druid) Tiara or +3 Summoning skills (Druid) Club on the swap or something? Or that simply doesn't work like that for sort of speaking 'pre-buffing charges'?

TheDoo wrote: 2 years ago

Necrarch wrote: 2 years ago

2- Synergies do work whatever the way you get them. If you get an item with Golem Mastery oskill (I think it does NOT exist, but just for the example) and a Metalgrid, your +to Golem Mastery will be kept on your Golem AND you can them remove the item providing Mastery (but do remember that Golem is respawned every game so you'd better put back the Mastery before quitting).

But it only works for Oskills right? I'm asking this because I read somewhere (can't really remember where) that if you have an Oskill that you are using and you equip something with +skill even tho it's from different class and you can't use that particular skill it still provides the synergy for the Oskill. For example, if you'd have Passion on a Barb and used Zeal skill if you would equip something like a Scepter that adds +3 Sacrifice (Paladin only) even tho you couldn't use Sacrifice as a skill on your Barb it would still provide that bonus as a synergy to Zeal because Zeal is Oskill. I know it sounded really odd when I read that, like it doesn't sound right, but who am I to question it (I am kinda questioning it's validity rn)...

Or in my case, I'm asking if that's true, does it also work for charges as well? For example, in my case, if I were to equip Crescent Moon on Necro and Summon Spirit Wolf from charges, would it be beneficial to also use, for example, +3 Summoning skills (Druid) Tiara or +3 Summoning skills (Druid) Club on the swap or something? Or that simply doesn't work like that for sort of speaking 'pre-buffing charges'?

You're looking at 2 different things here. Or...3 I guess.

1) Class restricted means class restricted. So xyz (class abc only) won't help you on a different class.

2) A theoretical non-restricted Golem Mastery as necrarch mentioned should apply to you on any class and grant the related benefits if you're able to summon a golem.

3) Your Zeal/ Sacrifice example is quite different from the above. Golem Mastery is a bonus/passive buff, meaning it applies based on the current level of Golem Mastery and that's it. Sacrifice for Zeal however isn't a passive buff but a synergy. Synergies in general (excluding summon druid special treatment) do not work with +skill from items, regardless of whether that's a class restricted +skill or not. They only consider hard points invested into the skill granting the synergy bonus. Even as a pally, your Zeal wouldn't be improved by a +3 Sacrifice item. You'd need to actually invest the hard points.

Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago

3) Your Zeal/ Sacrifice example is quite different from the above. Golem Mastery is a bonus/passive buff, meaning it applies based on the current level of Golem Mastery and that's it. Sacrifice for Zeal however isn't a passive buff but a synergy. Synergies in general (excluding summon druid special treatment) do not work with +skill from items, regardless of whether that's a class restricted +skill or not. They only consider hard points invested into the skill granting the synergy bonus. Even as a pally, your Zeal wouldn't be improved by a +3 Sacrifice item. You'd need to actually invest the hard points.

I see. So it's not true what I read, still can't remember where it was, on some D2 site. I definitely remember it saying you can get synergy bonuses on off-class skills if you combine +skill from items and you use at least 1 Oskill which will be buffed (if skills correlate). But thanks for clarifying that for me, that myth is busted I guess. I thought so too because that felt like an illogical thing to be honest but I couldn't test that even if I had opportunity because of lack of in-game info.
Thank you and Necrarch for your help

Fully investing in Rabies increases the poison damage of Poison Creeper that is summoned from the Carrion Wind ring, right?

Yes, synergies work regardless of the synergized skill source.

Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago

3) Your Zeal/ Sacrifice example is quite different from the above. Golem Mastery is a bonus/passive buff, meaning it applies based on the current level of Golem Mastery and that's it. Sacrifice for Zeal however isn't a passive buff but a synergy. Synergies in general (excluding summon druid special treatment) do not work with +skill from items, regardless of whether that's a class restricted +skill or not. They only consider hard points invested into the skill granting the synergy bonus. Even as a pally, your Zeal wouldn't be improved by a +3 Sacrifice item. You'd need to actually invest the hard points.

Trang Oul wrote: 2 years ago

Yes, synergies work regardless of the synergized skill source.

I believe, like how Schnorki said, you don't get synergy bonuses from item based + to skills. Like the infamous +3 Vigor/+3 hammers scepters. Your hammers wouldn't benefit from the +3 to Vigor. Only your Vigor itself would benefit from that.

Knappogue wrote: 2 years ago

Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago

3) Your Zeal/ Sacrifice example is quite different from the above. Golem Mastery is a bonus/passive buff, meaning it applies based on the current level of Golem Mastery and that's it. Sacrifice for Zeal however isn't a passive buff but a synergy. Synergies in general (excluding summon druid special treatment) do not work with +skill from items, regardless of whether that's a class restricted +skill or not. They only consider hard points invested into the skill granting the synergy bonus. Even as a pally, your Zeal wouldn't be improved by a +3 Sacrifice item. You'd need to actually invest the hard points.

Trang Oul wrote: 2 years ago

Yes, synergies work regardless of the synergized skill source.

I believe, like how Schnorki said, you don't get synergy bonuses from item based + to skills. Like the infamous +3 Vigor/+3 hammers scepters. Your hammers wouldn't benefit from the +3 to Vigor. Only your Vigor itself would benefit from that.

I believe Trang is talking about the reverse.

E.g. say you're a sorc with 20 pts put into Ice Bolt and nothing else. You then equip a staff with +3 blizzard.
- Your Ice Bolt will still do the same damage as before because the +3 blizzard off the staff do not grant a synergy bonus to it as they are not hard points.
- Your lvl 3 blizzard however, even though you're granted that only by your staff will get the full 20 pt synergy bonus from your Ice Bolt as those are hard points.
- Or to double up: If you were to use a staff with +3 blizz/+3 Ice Bolt instead (if such a staff existed that is ^^), you'd get a lvl 23 bolt with still no synergy bonus whatsoever and a lvl 3 blizzard with a synergy bonus granted by your 20 hard pts in bolt but not increased any further by the extra +3 to Ice Bolt off the staff.

Or more generally speaking:
Hard points invested into synergy bonus granting skills will grant that bonus to all applicable skills, even those you only obtain via items.
Soft points (granted by items, shrines, buffs, ..) added to a synergy bonus granting skill however will NOT grant that bonus to any skills, regardless of exact source, as they are not hard points.
(With summon druids again remaining the exception)

Yeah hard points as synergies feel like a good logic to me as well... It would be absolutely odd to be able to circumvent the "(class only)" part like that.

So hypothetically just to summarize, if there was an item that had charges on for example Werewolf and you were a Sorc using Beast the + Lycanthropy from Beast would add it's bonus and synergies to your wolf form even tho it's from charges? But if you were to put also Metamorphosis it wouldn't benefit you regarding to skills, only the Mark effect I assume?

P.S. Another question that just popped on my mind is: Is it really impossible to recharge charges on ethereal items? For example you have an Oath in eth-base, it's ethereal and indestructible however if you use some of it's charges you can replenish them at any cost. Right? Buggers!