Found Cham - what to do?

So I found a Cham rune and after being very happy at first there seems to be no real use for it. It doesn't seem to be worth much (according to the price check tool) and the runewords Pride, Doom, Hand of Justice (side from needing the occasional Ohm, Lo or Sur) are not great as well.
So - useless rune?

Lol, I have the same question.
Found Cham this morning, already made HoJ.
Others runewords are not really good.

I would wait for the end of the ladder to try Mist, for amazon or act 1 rogue.

I stucked mine into Arreat's Face for a Travincal running barb (which is great in this case because Raven Frost adds cold damage, Cham does not, so you can hork more) and another one into Shako for some different build. You can free up ring slot for something else this way if you were using Raven Frost . For me Cham is primarily for "cannot be frozen".

I would argue that Pride is great for a necro summoner and bowazon.

as louner said, its great for mf/ Gold barb because u dont crush some monsters in pieces.
also can be used in mercs equipement.
if u plannin to play with druid, donno is there better build for him than Doom Wind.

its usefull rune

Imo, Cham is either:

1) CBF effect in your headgear, so you nn to use Ravenfrost (hooray for horker, and another SoJ/BK for hammer, etc);
2) Plague weapon - either for assy, or daggermancer, or a5/a3 merc. BiS for fireclaw+armag shifter druid;
3) Pride/Mist/HoJ/Doom component.

Edit: 4) And if neither of the above satisfies you - I'll gladly swap it for my Vex Just give a holler.

knightfall1985 wrote: 4 years ago

... Pride, Doom, Hand of Justice (side from needing the occasional Ohm, Lo or Sur) are not great as well.
So - useless rune?

I mean...sure, if "BiS for multiple builds" is your definition of "not great" and you ignore the fact that it is one of the very few runes with an actually useful socket effect in and by itself (making it a socket BiS for multiple builds as well), then yeah, useless.

Thanks for all the advice.
My horker has Trang-Ouls Girth for cbf. My Venomancer has full Trang because I think it's cool, my Druid is a Tornadostormer with Hoto.

You can trade it for Ohm and make CTA if none of the above satisfy you.

knightfall1985 wrote: 4 years ago

So I found a Cham rune and after being very happy at first there seems to be no real use for it. It doesn't seem to be worth much (according to the price check tool) and the runewords Pride, Doom, Hand of Justice (side from needing the occasional Ohm, Lo or Sur) are not great as well.
So - useless rune?

I've also found a Cham, and I'm waiting until I can make a Mist bow. I already have a 5os GM bow and all the runes ready to go.

Hate to be the guy to state the obvious, but Cham is half a Zod, offline anyways. Online you should be able to trade for a Zod, maybe? Then ebotd? Don’t know what char your running but it’d still be useful.

I’d be happy to find one anyways, so congrats!

knightfall1985 wrote: 4 years ago

So I found a Cham rune and after being very happy at first there seems to be no real use for it. It doesn't seem to be worth much (according to the price check tool) and the runewords Pride, Doom, Hand of Justice (side from needing the occasional Ohm, Lo or Sur) are not great as well.
So - useless rune?

I always thought that this was a bit of a flaw with D2. If you can go up the rune scale with cube recipes, then you should be able to go down as well. eg. Cham + Pgem= Jah Jah. Ist + Pgem = Mal Mal.

lscottl wrote: 4 years ago

knightfall1985 wrote: 4 years ago

So I found a Cham rune and after being very happy at first there seems to be no real use for it. It doesn't seem to be worth much (according to the price check tool) and the runewords Pride, Doom, Hand of Justice (side from needing the occasional Ohm, Lo or Sur) are not great as well.
So - useless rune?

I always thought that this was a bit of a flaw with D2. If you can go up the rune scale with cube recipes, then you should be able to go down as well. eg. Cham + Pgem= Jah Jah. Ist + Pgem = Mal Mal.

I used to think that, until a friend I was playing with talked me out of it using opportunity cost. As it is now, Cham's limited usefulness in good RWs means using it doesn't have as many drawbacks. I can put it in my Arreat's Face to improve horking and not feel too bad about my use of resources, or I can make a meh Pride for my Bowazon or something and it's no big deal.

However, if a Cham could become 4 Ber runes or 2 Jah, which are prime runes for BIS gear, then using it as a source of CBF would be insane. Even using it in its proper RWs would be insane. Why make Pride out of a Cham when 2 Ber is Infinity? 1 Cham would break down into Enigma with 1 Ber to spare. Mist and other RWs like that would be useless; 1 broken Cham rune would be Faith with change leftover or 2 Faith if you have another source of Ohm. You could also get enough Lo or Ohm runes out of this devolution scheme to roll great griefs, ctas, fortitudes, etc. You could fully BIS gear a smiter/barb out of melting down that single Cham rune and probably have runes to spare. This gets even worse if we consider that Zod would be twice that Wealth melted down. Say goodbye to Breath of the Dying.

In other words, the value of the runes that Cham and Zod would break down into would invalidate all uses of Cham and Zod themselves. And while it's true in this game that sudden Wealth can appear out of nowhere, there is no 1 rune you can find that instantly allows you to BIS a Brand new character without extra investment. That would greatly disturb/distort the endgame of D2 imo.

Winterkill wrote: 4 years ago

lscottl wrote: 4 years ago

knightfall1985 wrote: 4 years ago

So I found a Cham rune and after being very happy at first there seems to be no real use for it. It doesn't seem to be worth much (according to the price check tool) and the runewords Pride, Doom, Hand of Justice (side from needing the occasional Ohm, Lo or Sur) are not great as well.
So - useless rune?

I always thought that this was a bit of a flaw with D2. If you can go up the rune scale with cube recipes, then you should be able to go down as well. eg. Cham + Pgem= Jah Jah. Ist + Pgem = Mal Mal.

I used to think that, until a friend I was playing with talked me out of it using opportunity cost. As it is now, Cham's limited usefulness in good RWs means using it doesn't have as many drawbacks. I can put it in my Arreat's Face to improve horking and not feel too bad about my use of resources, or I can make a meh Pride for my Bowazon or something and it's no big deal.

However, if a Cham could become 4 Ber runes or 2 Jah, which are prime runes for BIS gear, then using it as a source of CBF would be insane. Even using it in its proper RWs would be insane. Why make Pride out of a Cham when 2 Ber is Infinity? 1 Cham would break down into Enigma with 1 Ber to spare. Mist and other RWs like that would be useless; 1 broken Cham rune would be Faith with change leftover or 2 Faith if you have another source of Ohm. You could also get enough Lo or Ohm runes out of this devolution scheme to roll great griefs, ctas, fortitudes, etc. You could fully BIS gear a smiter/barb out of melting down that single Cham rune and probably have runes to spare. This gets even worse if we consider that Zod would be twice that Wealth melted down. Say goodbye to Breath of the Dying.

In other words, the value of the runes that Cham and Zod would break down into would invalidate all uses of Cham and Zod themselves. And while it's true in this game that sudden Wealth can appear out of nowhere, there is no 1 rune you can find that instantly allows you to BIS a Brand new character without extra investment. That would greatly disturb/distort the endgame of D2 imo.

Yep, my thoughts was the same, I like it as it is right now, and even with this I am really excited when I find Cham

I'd disagree with the "invalidate uses" argument. You either want it or you don't. And if you do..sure, the argument may delay your use of a Cham for anti-freeze or one of the Cham RWs but it'd still happen at some point.
Hell, I use like 10 Cham across my 7 chars and I wouldn't change that, even if they could've turned into 40 Ber instead.

The main reason against downgrading imo is that it'd simply make the other HRs too common in the context of D2's intentionally low drop rates.
Hell, any 1 Zod would suddenly become 8 Ber. Or 32 Lo. Or 64 Ohm. That's..kinda silly.

Though I suppose it would make them more worthwhile as currency, seeing how some extremely rare pieces do go for >40 Ber/ Jah, meaning even with those you can't fit the entire trade into a single trade window anymore.
But I dare say that's enough of an Edge case to not warrant massive economy changes just for that.

To avoid 'massive D2 economic changes' of a Zod turning into 32 Lo, limit downgrades allowable to one.

eg.. Zod turns into 2 Cham. Change the newly reciped Cham to the color red to designate that they are frozen(no more up or down rune recipes), but can still be used in Runewords.

It is all fantasy, but there is a work around.

Or just make downgrade recipes to give only one of the lower rank rune:
- Zod downgrade recipe giving 1 Cham,
- Cham downgrade recipe giving 1 Jah,
- Etc.

Then at least Zod = Cham = Jah, making higher rank rune always more or at least more expensive than the lower rank one.
Zod and Cham should still cost a little bit more than Jah due to the extra possible RWs.
And Jah and other HRs prices will go down with the extra possible Jah, making then more accessible.
But not to the extend of being worthless and crashing the market.

Alternatively: Rune rank n & Rune rank n+1 => Rune rank n-1 ( Cham & Zod giving Jah)

For merc Helm at least.