Yeah sure trading in non ladder or after few weeks of ladder on jsp is pretty much dead and dusted. But I still have my in game stuff ^ ^ still making few trades here and there on diablo2.io. But yeah still my HC NL 30% Death's Fathom and 15% 2os Crown of Ages are not worth selling , idk maybe in 6 months someone will bring me "honest" "OK"ish price.
You guys are using d2jsp and you are saying that bots are dropping prices. People who use bots spend their money on powerful PCs, internet and electricity. I think this is just whining, because you yourself can not figure out how to use these bots. What is the payback of these bots in the end when the prices are so low? All of you who start the season farm and sell in order to get as much profit as possible on d2jsp and nothing else. And as a trader, I understand you. But as a buyer, I am absolutely on the side of the bots. I provide services, and my capital increases every time with falling prices. Do you think the whole world is limited only to those who know how to trade? Believe it or not, there are a lot of lazy people out there who don't use trade sites. In our modern world, few people think with their heads, unfortunately. Ordinary players, not you traders, win when prices fall. So let's not talk about fairness when traders have a lot of capital, and ordinary players spend hours farming in search of what they need.
For those of you who think P2W is unfair, don't you feel like you're wasting your life playing a PC game? Isn't the goal of the game to collect as many perfect gear as possible and try out different playing techniques? Do you have no real life or run out of other interesting games that you would like to try? Or maybe one of you can share the secret of immortality so that I can safely play the next 100 years in D2R? Estimate the time you spend on the game and the value of the equipment you have obtained, as well as the money earned in real life during the same time, and draw conclusions. You want to somehow punish the botters, but what, there are no other problems in our world? My country has been waging a bloody war since 2014. Kills and imprisons those of us who do not agree with the regime. Oh, brave new world... There will never be justice in this world.
Is Blizzard fixing any issues with the game? Introduces some unique content? They make money from us like any other corporation. The game will not die as long as there are interested players in it. The original D2 is still played and traded to this day.
The fairest mode would have been SSF if Blizzard had introduced it in the first place. With the possibility of converting to non-SSF at any time and fixing the record in the table, and with Conversion to non-SSF after the end of the season. But Blizzard wanted to spit on all of you and will continue to wipe their feet on you.
flamebellow wrote: 10 months ago
You guys are using d2jsp and you are saying that bots are dropping prices. People who use bots spend their money on powerful PCs, internet and electricity. I think this is just whining, because you yourself can not figure out how to use these bots. What is the payback of these bots in the end when the prices are so low? All of you who start the season farm and sell in order to get as much profit as possible on d2jsp and nothing else. And as a trader, I understand you. But as a buyer, I am absolutely on the side of the bots. I provide services, and my capital increases every time with falling prices. Do you think the whole world is limited only to those who know how to trade? Believe it or not, there are a lot of lazy people out there who don't use trade sites. In our modern world, few people think with their heads, unfortunately. Ordinary players, not you traders, win when prices fall. So let's not talk about fairness when traders have a lot of capital, and ordinary players spend hours farming in search of what they need.
For those of you who think P2W is unfair, don't you feel like you're wasting your life playing a PC game? Isn't the goal of the game to collect as many perfect gear as possible and try out different playing techniques? Do you have no real life or run out of other interesting games that you would like to try? Or maybe one of you can share the secret of immortality so that I can safely play the next 100 years in D2R? Estimate the time you spend on the game and the value of the equipment you have obtained, as well as the money earned in real life during the same time, and draw conclusions. You want to somehow punish the botters, but what, there are no other problems in our world? My country has been waging a bloody war since 2014. Kills and imprisons those of us who do not agree with the regime. Oh, brave new world... There will never be justice in this world.
Is Blizzard fixing any issues with the game? Introduces some unique content? They make money from us like any other corporation. The game will not die as long as there are interested players in it. The original D2 is still played and traded to this day.
The fairest mode would have been SSF if Blizzard had introduced it in the first place. With the possibility of converting to non-SSF at any time and fixing the record in the table, and with Conversion to non-SSF after the end of the season. But Blizzard wanted to spit on all of you and will continue to wipe their feet on you.
Assuming someone wants to bot, just because the person is against bots?
Comparing War in real life with the problematic of bots in a game?
SSF in D2?
Jesus....stop triggering.
You cannot be serious with that.
Blah blah blah. Everything in this world is interconnected. Think wider. I see this talk about d2jsp and bots since the original D2. Buy 12000fg for $100, buy yourself x600 Ber and be happy. You will never hold bot growers accountable, that's Blizzard's job. You will never get justice in this world. Business is to buy low and sell high. Humble yourself, wipe your tears and move on.
d2rppa69 wrote: 10 months ago
D2jsp isnt the issue, botters are… we know how bliz handles bots
Both are. JSP originates from bots, but without them it'd be "only" a black market site, with legitly collected loot, but still being sold for real money - AKA P2W.
flamebellow wrote: 10 months ago
You guys are using d2jsp and you are saying that bots are dropping prices. People who use bots spend their money on powerful PCs, internet and electricity.
LOL. Do you really think that running D2 is like running a bitcoin miner (which is yet another scam)?
flamebellow wrote: 10 months ago
The fairest mode would have been SSF if Blizzard had introduced it in the first place. With the possibility of converting to non-SSF at any time and fixing the record in the table, and with Conversion to non-SSF after the end of the season. But Blizzard wanted to spit on all of you and will continue to wipe their feet on you.
(...)
Is Blizzard fixing any issues with the game? Introduces some unique content?
100% agreed. Each subsequent D2 ladder brought less new content, with the last one bringing nothing.
flamebellow wrote: 10 months ago
Is Blizzard fixing any issues with the game? Introduces some unique content? They make money from us like any other corporation. The game will not die as long as there are interested players in it. The original D2 is still played and traded to this day.
Yes, by bots and maybe a small fraction of its former players. Most of the players don't play (seriously) anymore because what is the point in competing with so many bots? Some return because of nostalgia, but the game is nowhere as popular as it used to be.
@Flamebellow the argument about spending 100$ to buy hundreds of Bers reminds me of a Simpsons episode, in which Homer finds a half solved crossword magazine in Apu's store and the ad on the cover states something like "half of the puzzlers have been solved so you can solve the other faster and enjoy your beer sooner".
In a way, what you suggesting is similar, as for some, including myself, it is or at least was the way to the "endgame" rather than the "endgame" itself (e.g. one-shot everything in Hell, or kill ubers in a few moments) which was fun about D2R.
I'm not denying the P2W as a concept, but for D2R, unless it's for PVP, botting/paying real funds for items just shortens the fun/challenging part of the game. As a successor fo D2, D2R does not have a huge paywall to get there, although it requires grinding for sure ...
Ok about the war against botters now, if u guys want to get rid of botters and make some gains you just need to wait for a banwave that will eventually come because it happend a couple times already, then all these botter stores will be buying your legit items to restock they little internet $ stores, kinda sucks still , hey I can finally sell my gg stuff but still itll end up in someones $ web store on the shelf
WrathofMagus wrote: 10 months agoOn the upside, with everything so cheap now, even people who don't play very much can try out far more powerful builds for a lot less than it would have cost before, making it more accessible to those who have less free time.
If I didn't end up falling into jsp when I did, I would have already dropped the game a long time ago as the amount of good gear that I could find on my own was tiny and I was getting bored. Now that I have the option to play a bunch of different builds and a bunch of different characters, I can happily play more casually and not have to farm constantly just to get enough Wealth just to try things out.
What is the point of further gameplay if you already have endgame builds with the most expensive BiS items? "Fun" killing everything with one shot? There is an easier way, not harming the other players: just play SP and cheat with hero editor. Even streamers cheat in SP to try builds before playing them online.
As D2 has no proper endgame, it is the journey that matters, not the destination.
Why do you reckon everyone shares your point of view on what's considered fun?
I, for one, don't care about the journey at all. I haven't properly gone through the game since the D2 Classic days. I couldn't care less about questing, beating the difficulties as one is "supposed to" or progressively upgrading my items as I play. To me, fun is getting all BiS items, amassing hundreds of HRs for no particular reason and playing once in a blue moon. Does this make sense? To me it does.
In Single Player I won't be able to play with my friends, so here is one reason to be playing online.
Yeah, there are different parts of the game fun for different people. I have already played through the story and the campaign multiple times with different characters. I no longer get enjoyment from that part of the game very often. I've already had the journey, now I want to enjoy the fun at the end of the rainbow. Once every few years or so I'll go back and play through normal slowly again and refamiliarize myself with the story. But more often than not, I want to do some efficient farming to try and complete my grail (9 items left) or I want to try out new builds and see how they play or I just want to kill a bunch of stuff with a character that kills fast. I tried a number of builds over the years and I've found different levels of enjoyment with them, but more often than not, I enjoy them more when I can really gear them out and max out their resistance so I can try farming whatever the Terror zone happens to be or what feels fun in the moment. Sunders have made this a lot more fun for me by enabling me to play most characters in most areas if I feel like doing so. Some people find more joy in dueling, some like the journey, and some like to see the destination. To each their own right?
flamebellow wrote: 10 months ago
Blah blah blah. Everything in this world is interconnected. Think wider. I see this talk about d2jsp and bots since the original D2. Buy 12000fg for $100, buy yourself x600 Ber and be happy. You will never hold bot growers accountable, that's Blizzard's job. You will never get justice in this world. Business is to buy low and sell high. Humble yourself, wipe your tears and move on.
Items that have been received that way bring no joy. If you may buy everything for a day, whats the goal to play?
My time zone is GMT+3, I am usually available for trades between 6:00-10:00 PM
flamebellow wrote: 10 months ago
Blah blah blah. Everything in this world is interconnected. Think wider. I see this talk about d2jsp and bots since the original D2. Buy 12000fg for $100, buy yourself x600 Ber and be happy. You will never hold bot growers accountable, that's Blizzard's job. You will never get justice in this world. Business is to buy low and sell high. Humble yourself, wipe your tears and move on.
Items that have been received that way bring no joy. If you may buy everything for a day, whats the goal to play?
What are you talking about? Look at prices for some skillers or charms, or perfect Annihilus or torches. How many years will you farm runes?
flamebellow wrote: 10 months ago
Blah blah blah. Everything in this world is interconnected. Think wider. I see this talk about d2jsp and bots since the original D2. Buy 12000fg for $100, buy yourself x600 Ber and be happy. You will never hold bot growers accountable, that's Blizzard's job. You will never get justice in this world. Business is to buy low and sell high. Humble yourself, wipe your tears and move on.
Items that have been received that way bring no joy. If you may buy everything for a day, whats the goal to play?
What are you talking about? Look at prices for some skillers or charms, or perfect Annihilus or torches. How many years will you farm runes?
Seen a few of your posts on the forum lately that have been pro-RMT.
Usually your argument is 'why farm in-game when you can just buy FG or direct buy an item, it is faster'. I don't think anyone is disputing that RMT-ing items is faster - we all know that it is faster.
The person you were responding to is talking about how enjoyable the self-found/item traded playstyle is for them - not how fast it is.
You are making a strawman argument. A strawman argument is when someone counters by defending a separate topic to the one that was being discussed.
That's all I have to add really besides the obvious which is that each person enjoys the game in different ways.
PS The original topic by OP was about how the economy is in a bad shape right now, and that botters are probably to blame. Do you disagree with that?
Items that have been received that way bring no joy. If you may buy everything for a day, whats the goal to play?
What are you talking about? Look at prices for some skillers or charms, or perfect Annihilus or torches. How many years will you farm runes?
Seen a few of your posts on the forum lately that have been pro-RMT.
Usually your argument is 'why farm in-game when you can just buy FG or direct buy an item, it is faster'. I don't think anyone is disputing that RMT-ing items is faster - we all know that it is faster.
The person you were responding to is talking about how enjoyable the self-found/item traded playstyle is for them - not how fast it is.
You are making a strawman argument. A strawman argument is when someone counters by defending a separate topic to the one that was being discussed.
That's all I have to add really besides the obvious which is that each person enjoys the game in different ways.
PS The original topic by OP was about how the economy is in a bad shape right now, and that botters are probably to blame. Do you disagree with that?
There are too many variables in our life that we cannot take into account and calculate. By studying the market, I can say that the endgame stuff even went up in price to correct the fall in rune prices. Especially rare stuff with perfect rolls. I am against RMT, but the developers did not provide any protection mechanisms. At the same time, if not to take my words out of context, regarding the whole topic, I encourage people to think about the part of their real life spent on the game. If you earn more in real life, then you can safely buy some runes, instead of farming for hours and trading with players who buy runes for real money.
Here is an example. Some drug cartel runs a grocery store and sells something to launder money. The same goes for bot owners. Are bots allowed in the game? No. Are drugs legal in most countries? No. Do most people who buy groceries know that the store is being used for undercover crime? No. The same with bots. I trade a lot with Asians and the vast majority suggest that I wait a bit before they buy runes with real money... Is Blizzard undertaking any means to defeat bots in a similar way to states fighting drugs? No.
I haven't invested a cent other than buying extra copies of the game on sale because I enjoy trading and farming. But I don't like it when I spend a lot of time farming and someone buys runes from bots. I'm talking about the wasted time of my real life.
I don't agree that only botters are to blame. For some reason, people do not take into account the population of people and the number of players from Asia. The cost of maintaining bots (hardware, electricity, internet) is not taken into account. They do not take into account the Asian mentality and their trading methods. If the markets were isolated, this imbalance would not exist.
The outflow of people from the game is also an important factor. I already wrote earlier that the original D2 is still alive, but the price of Ber is 3fg, while in D2R it is about 20fg, if you take d2jsp. Also, fg doesn't appear out of thin air, a lot of money goes to ^njaguar. Therefore, there will always be RMT, because players use all three platforms, Traderie, d2io and d2jsp. Everyone finds meaning and pleasure in this game. But when I hear the whining of people who use d2jsp, all I see is that they can no longer make the profit they used to make on trading. And nothing else. At a time when some are enriched at a rapid pace, knowing the market, others are wasting their time, with difficulty getting the things they need or runic words. d2jsp is mostly about RMT. Real money is connected to real life. Real life is time. Time is the most valuable resource.
Diablo 2 is not about the storyline, but about the numbers. About the best characteristics of things. There is no limit to perfection, but in order to get closer to the maximum, large resources are needed. Punishing bot owners is an unrealistic task. Price drops due to bots benefit ordinary players, not merchants. I know players who quit the game because they couldn't find the runes they needed, and the prices were so high that they didn't want to farm for that long. There is no fair competition in this game, and falling prices offer a chance.
flamebellow wrote: 10 months ago
At the same time, if not to take my words out of context, regarding the whole topic, I encourage people to think about the part of their real life spent on the game. If you earn more in real life, then you can safely buy some runes, instead of farming for hours and trading with players who buy runes for real money.
Once again, you're making a strawman argument.
No-one is arguing with you that it isn't faster to buy runes with real money. They're just saying it's less fun for them.
For you it is more fun to buy the items, np. Just don't go around antagonising people saying 'but its more efficient!' when they've just said it's more fun for them to take the inefficient path of progression.
flamebellow wrote: 10 months ago
At the same time, if not to take my words out of context, regarding the whole topic, I encourage people to think about the part of their real life spent on the game. If you earn more in real life, then you can safely buy some runes, instead of farming for hours and trading with players who buy runes for real money.
Once again, you're making a strawman argument.
No-one is arguing with you that it isn't faster to buy runes with real money. They're just saying it's less fun for them.
For you it is more fun to buy the items, np. Just don't go around antagonising people saying 'but its more efficient!' when they've just said it's more fun for them to take the inefficient path of progression.
This is the choice of each individual person what to spend their time on.. I mean that the person who writes to me has read all the messages and replies globally. I think I'm wasting my time again. Isn't it a strange question to ask me if people won't get bored playing when they get the runes quickly? This is a rhetorical question to which there is no answer. Those who are tired have already achieved what they wanted in the game and left. Some left the game because they couldn't try out the builds they wanted, but couldn't farm the resources they needed. Those who have some targets remained in the game. For those who need perfect things, will play on. Here is my vague answer to a specific question. But this is a boring question, not a global one.
If I'll buy the runes and I'll build everything in 3 days then I'll leave the game for sure after 10 days tops. Because there is no more fun. If you like to have fun with the wallet, well, it's your choice.
All my trades are Non Ladder.
Usually available between 7 and 11 pm during the week (UTC+02:00 time) and most of the day on weekends.
SnowSnow wrote: 10 months ago
If I'll buy the runes and I'll build everything in 3 days then I'll leave the game for sure after 10 days tops. Because there is no more fun. If you like to have fun with the wallet, well, it's your choice.
My thought is not so much about the wallet, but about things with different characteristics. And the more of them, the less chance to find the perfect item. As you research different builds and look at prices for the best items, think about how much you need to farm to get them. If you don’t have a goal to collect the most perfect equipment, try all the characters and different builds, then you might be bored.
I personally botted for many years in Runescape (2001 to 2006), but was eventually banned and lost a character I put almost 5 years into. And because of that, I choose not to risk botting in Diablo.
Would be nice to see stricter enforcement from Blizzard, so that others learn the same lesson I did. But I fear the only way that would happen is if people speak up on the forums AND stop giving Blizzard so much money. Boycotting seems to be the only effective tool that the decision makers would listen to, but we would have to unite in a way similar to WallStreetBets and how they pushed GME to the moon. Nearly impossible to get that momentum going, given how apathetic most people are. Even a few in this post said they couldn't care less.
The botters have won this war, and are here to stay. Laziness & greed is yet again triumphant. The Borg would be proud.
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