Trying to understand how poison damage gets calculated, re: equipment that reduces poison resistances and increases poison skill damage.
For example, when biting with Rabies, I understand that you want as high skill as possible (e.g., Plague Bearer+5 Rabies / Spirit shield), but then you want to swap to your alt set that includes weapons like Death's Web and Bile/psn facet shield.
Is it that the Bite sets the # poison damage / X seconds, and then each tick takes into account the -psn res?
When does +psn skill damage come into play? At the time of the Rabies bite? Or for each tick?
Would you want the Bile jewel in the Plague Bearer for the Rabies bite or in the weapon/shield swap? If +psn damage applies at time of Bite, and -res at time of ticks, presumably you'd want a full set of psn jewels in both weapon/shield swaps. No?
While we are at it, does the 451 psn dam charms apply to Rabies bites or just weapon attacks? And if the latter, would it apply to Fury attacks?
Thanks!
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Trying to understand how poison damage gets calculated, re: equipment that reduces poison resistances and increases poison skill damage.
For example, when biting with Rabies, I understand that you want as high skill as possible (e.g., Plague Bearer+5 Rabies / Spirit shield), but then you want to swap to your alt set that includes weapons like Death's Web and Bile/psn facet shield.
Is it that the Bite sets the # poison damage / X seconds, and then each tick takes into account the -psn res?
When does +psn skill damage come into play? At the time of the Rabies bite? Or for each tick?
Would you want the Bile jewel in the Plague Bearer for the Rabies bite or in the weapon/shield swap? If +psn damage applies at time of Bite, and -res at time of ticks, presumably you'd want a full set of psn jewels in both weapon/shield swaps. No?
While we are at it, does the 451 psn dam charms apply to Rabies bites or just weapon attacks? And if the latter, would it apply to Fury attacks?
Thanks!
For example, when biting with Rabies, I understand that you want as high skill as possible (e.g., Plague Bearer+5 Rabies / Spirit shield), but then you want to swap to your alt set that includes weapons like Death's Web and Bile/psn facet shield.
Is it that the Bite sets the # poison damage / X seconds, and then each tick takes into account the -psn res?
When does +psn skill damage come into play? At the time of the Rabies bite? Or for each tick?
Would you want the Bile jewel in the Plague Bearer for the Rabies bite or in the weapon/shield swap? If +psn damage applies at time of Bite, and -res at time of ticks, presumably you'd want a full set of psn jewels in both weapon/shield swaps. No?
While we are at it, does the 451 psn dam charms apply to Rabies bites or just weapon attacks? And if the latter, would it apply to Fury attacks?
Thanks!
Can be used to make Runewords:
this is the Pandora box you want to open. i use this guide here for poison:
https://maxroll.gg/d2/resources/poison-damage
I think the +% skill damage is applied initially, to be more precise, when the bit rate is calculated. but the - poison res is applied per frame.
https://maxroll.gg/d2/resources/poison-damage
I think the +% skill damage is applied initially, to be more precise, when the bit rate is calculated. but the - poison res is applied per frame.
Things I am just learning:
https://www.theamazonbasin.com/wiki/ind ... ill_Damage
https://maxroll.gg/d2/resources/poison-damage
Poison damage from multiple sources is very complicated.
I'm also leanring that Venom from Grief or Treachery can do strange things to poison skills and potentially overwrite an ongoing poisoning. SMH. My plan was Rabies/Fury druid swapping to Grief/Facet shield after Bite, but Grief (and barb Merc was going to have Grief + Plague, too) might overwrite the Rabies...
https://www.theamazonbasin.com/wiki/ind ... ill_Damage
https://maxroll.gg/d2/resources/poison-damage
Poison damage from multiple sources is very complicated.
I'm also leanring that Venom from Grief or Treachery can do strange things to poison skills and potentially overwrite an ongoing poisoning. SMH. My plan was Rabies/Fury druid swapping to Grief/Facet shield after Bite, but Grief (and barb Merc was going to have Grief + Plague, too) might overwrite the Rabies...
First of all, internally under the hood, poison is handled as a bit rate (1/256ths of damage), and it's applied every frame. For example, a Toxic Small Charm has a bit rate of 205 for 125 frames, which is displayed in-game as 100 poison damage over 5 seconds (125 * 205/256 over 125/25).
As far as I know, when poison is applied to a target, the game calculates an effective bit rate. It does this by taking the base bit rate of the poison being applied, adds +poison skill damage and the target's resistance (including any -enemy poison res on gear at the time of application). Using the Toxic Small Charm example, say you have +50% poison skill damage, -25% enemy poison resistance on gear, and the target has 50% base poison resistance and is affected by a level 15 Lower Resist curse (-60%). The target's effective poison resistance is -35%, so the effective bit rate is 205 * 1.5 * 1.35 = 414.
Adding/removing equipment with +poison skill damage or -enemy poison res (or the Lower Resist curse expiring / being refreshed) while the poison is already active does nothing - the effective bit rate as explained above is calculated at the time the poison is applied, and it remains fixed for the duration of the poison. I.e., the bit rate is not re-calculated on every frame, it's calculated once.
If a target is already affected by poison when an attack/skill applying poison damage hits it, the game compares the two effective bit rates (for the existing poison it uses the pre-calculated effective bit rate, for the new poison it calculates its current effective bit rate given all current parameters), and the higher effective bit rate wins. I.e., if the new attack's/skill's effective bit rate at that time is lower than the bit rate of the poison already affecting the target, the poison isn't overridden. If the effective bit rate of poison applied by the new attack/skill is higher than the bit rate of the poison already affecting the target, the new poison takes effect.
Sources:
http://www.theamazonbasin.com/wiki/inde ... son_Damage
https://www.theamazonbasin.com/wiki/ind ... Resistance
Disclaimer: I'm not an expert on poison mechanics.
As far as I know, when poison is applied to a target, the game calculates an effective bit rate. It does this by taking the base bit rate of the poison being applied, adds +poison skill damage and the target's resistance (including any -enemy poison res on gear at the time of application). Using the Toxic Small Charm example, say you have +50% poison skill damage, -25% enemy poison resistance on gear, and the target has 50% base poison resistance and is affected by a level 15 Lower Resist curse (-60%). The target's effective poison resistance is -35%, so the effective bit rate is 205 * 1.5 * 1.35 = 414.
Adding/removing equipment with +poison skill damage or -enemy poison res (or the Lower Resist curse expiring / being refreshed) while the poison is already active does nothing - the effective bit rate as explained above is calculated at the time the poison is applied, and it remains fixed for the duration of the poison. I.e., the bit rate is not re-calculated on every frame, it's calculated once.
If a target is already affected by poison when an attack/skill applying poison damage hits it, the game compares the two effective bit rates (for the existing poison it uses the pre-calculated effective bit rate, for the new poison it calculates its current effective bit rate given all current parameters), and the higher effective bit rate wins. I.e., if the new attack's/skill's effective bit rate at that time is lower than the bit rate of the poison already affecting the target, the poison isn't overridden. If the effective bit rate of poison applied by the new attack/skill is higher than the bit rate of the poison already affecting the target, the new poison takes effect.
Sources:
http://www.theamazonbasin.com/wiki/inde ... son_Damage
https://www.theamazonbasin.com/wiki/ind ... Resistance
Disclaimer: I'm not an expert on poison mechanics.
I'm in CET (Central European Time)
My profile says Ladder, but I play both Ladder and Non-Ladder.
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Just the page I was reading. Makes sense to stack as much +skills and +% psn skill damage at time of bite and then switch to -psn res gear.ipatrishkov wrote: 37 minutes agothis is the Pandora box you want to open. i use this guide here for poison:
https://maxroll.gg/d2/resources/poison-damage
I think the +% skill damage is applied initially, to be more precise, when the bit rate is calculated. but the - poison res is applied per frame.
However, I'm beginning to see problems with the way additional poison damage gets factored in, particularly with Venom procs from Grief and Treachery...
It won't help to switch to -psn res gear after applying the poison.FerociousTerrier wrote: 14 minutes agoJust the page I was reading. Makes sense to stack as much +skills and +% psn skill damage at time of bite and then switch to -psn res gear.
-Enemy Poison Resistance only applies at the time of poison application, changing gear mid-poison will do diddly squat after the initial effective bit rate has already been calculated.
On -Enemy Poison Resistance at Amazon Basin (https://www.theamazonbasin.com/wiki/ind ... Resistance):
Even the maxroll page mentions this:
- It is only applied whenever a new source of poison damage is applied, so removing it afterwards will have no effect on remaining damage rate or length; adding it after a target is poisoned will have no effect either.
- -xx% EPR is checked at the point of Bit Rate and Poison Length application. Changing the total EPR afterwards does not affect the current Poison Length or Bit Rate.
I'm in CET (Central European Time)
My profile says Ladder, but I play both Ladder and Non-Ladder.
My profile says Softcore, but I play both Softcore and Hardcore.
My Holy Grail Tracker is for Offline Hardcore.
Holy Grail Death Count: 1
My profile says Ladder, but I play both Ladder and Non-Ladder.
My profile says Softcore, but I play both Softcore and Hardcore.
My Holy Grail Tracker is for Offline Hardcore.
Holy Grail Death Count: 1
This all tracks except for the -res part, which from the Maxroll guide seems to indicate that res is calculated per frame (??). Hence the maxroll Rabies guide recommending biting with Plague Bearer and then swapping to Death's Web. I am trying to confirm.ShadowHeart wrote: 15 minutes agoFirst of all, internally under the hood, poison is handled as a bit rate (1/256ths of damage), and it's applied every frame. For example, a Toxic Small Charm has a bit rate of 205 for 125 frames, which is displayed in-game as 100 poison damage over 5 seconds (125 * 205/256 over 125/25).
As far as I know, when poison is applied to a target, the game calculates an effective bit rate. It does this by taking the base bit rate of the poison being applied, adds +poison skill damage and the target's resistance (including any -enemy poison res on gear at the time of application). Using the Toxic Small Charm example, say you have +50% poison skill damage, -25% enemy poison resistance on gear, and the target has 50% base poison resistance and is affected by a level 15 Lower Resist curse (-60%). The target's effective poison resistance is -35%, so the effective bit rate is 205 * 1.5 * 1.35 = 414.
Adding/removing equipment with +poison skill damage or -enemy poison res (or the Lower Resist curse expiring / being refreshed) while the poison is already active does nothing - the effective bit rate as explained above is calculated at the time the poison is applied, and it remains fixed for the duration of the poison. I.e., the bit rate is not re-calculated on every frame, it's calculated once.
If a target is already affected by poison when an attack/skill applying poison damage hits it, the game compares the two effective bit rates (for the existing poison it uses the pre-calculated effective bit rate, for the new poison it calculates its current effective bit rate given all current parameters), and the higher effective bit rate wins. I.e., if the new attack's/skill's effective bit rate at that time is lower than the bit rate of the poison already affecting the target, the poison isn't overridden. If the effective bit rate of poison applied by the new attack/skill is higher than the bit rate of the poison already affecting the target, the new poison takes effect.
Sources:
http://www.theamazonbasin.com/wiki/inde ... son_Damage
https://www.theamazonbasin.com/wiki/ind ... Resistance
Disclaimer: I'm not an expert on poison mechanics.
Right now I'm facing a conundrum of whether or not to have Grief on an Act 5 barb merc or on my weapon swap (for using Fury between Rabies bites). I'll have to calculate effective bit rates so see which overrides the other!
It isn't, and the guide doesn't claim that - in fact, it's quite clear on the opposite.FerociousTerrier wrote: 5 minutes agoThis all tracks except for the -res part, which from the Maxroll guide seems to indicate that res is calculated per frame (??).
Under the "Resistances" section:
Under the "-xx% Enemy Poison Resistance (EPR)" section:
- Lowering a target's Resistance after Bit Rate is applied does not affect the current Bit Rate, since it checks the target's Resistance at the point of application.
- -xx% EPR is checked at the point of Bit Rate and Poison Length application. Changing the total EPR afterwards does not affect the current Poison Length or Bit Rate.
I'm in CET (Central European Time)
My profile says Ladder, but I play both Ladder and Non-Ladder.
My profile says Softcore, but I play both Softcore and Hardcore.
My Holy Grail Tracker is for Offline Hardcore.
Holy Grail Death Count: 1
My profile says Ladder, but I play both Ladder and Non-Ladder.
My profile says Softcore, but I play both Softcore and Hardcore.
My Holy Grail Tracker is for Offline Hardcore.
Holy Grail Death Count: 1
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