3.2 Demon Build Tainted Synergies

Looking to respec now that the patch has hit, but I am unsure about point distribution.

Fixed skills:
20

Demonic Mastery
20

Bind Demon

Tainted vs. Pure Boiler:

Tainted Pros // Cons: hitting about 17.6K apiece with max

Blood Boil, only one synergy to max // nothing, as far as I can tell
Boil Pros // Cons: about 6.9K mix of fire/physical AOE damage // mana cost, demon health cost (maybe negligible), 2 synergies to max
*note: only considering lower end of damage range because I'm lazy

In either

Tainted or Boiler case,

Blood Boil gets maxed. So starting from there, looking at the damage differential from one or the other:

Boil: Going from 6.9K fully synergized to 4.5K only partially synergized, but that's AOE so potentially multiplied loss of damage

Tainted: moving 19 points from

Blood Oath &

Engorge to

Summon Tainted, damage goes from 4.9K per

Tainted to 17.6K per

Tainted (using 20%

Blood Boil bonus)

I think

Tainted is the winner for me since I can still be boiling for only ~1/3rd loss of boil damage. Also more dynamic use of demons.

Now for the major question! What is the optimal distribution of points in

Blood Oath and

Engorge? Where is the sweet spot of both?

More Pros // Cons:

Blood Oath: More life for Demons // no idea what the health caps are now, so no idea when

Blood Oath stops adding to

Bind Demon's health, Resist All probably not doing much for my demons since they're already near max resists (unless Resist All includes Poison and/or Magic) and goes from 69% with 1 point to 75% with maxed points, damage transfer

Cap of 50% reached with only 4 hard points in

Blood Oath (assuming soft points count).

Engorge: Heal demon goes from 55% with 1 pt to 74% with max pts; Life steal from 65% to 103% // no change in attack speed, lose defense/replenish life bonus from

Blood Oath synergy, no idea if there are caps

Both provide the same synergy bonus to

Blood Boil. Given the above, I have no idea which is better to put points into. Bit of both? Edit: Maxroll seems to dislike when I copy part of the screen and removes my +skills. With my +skills from gear, 1 point in

Blood Oath and 1 point in

Engorge == levels 23 and 26, respectively. And that is leaving 21 points to distribute between the two skills.


Also, is Lethargy worth a point still?

I went with 0(zero) points in

Bind Demon.

My skills:

Blood Boil,

Tainted,

Blood Oath,

Engorge,

Demonic Mastery.
1point in Hex Syphon and

Sigil Death (6points spent)
No defilers, no consuming or binding.
You need to spawn

Tainted with as much -fire resist as possible.

I am not sure why do you need binded demon. No

Conviction anymore. You either put Infinity on your merc or use it yourself if you have nothing better (like MangSong).
If you really need

Bind Demon go with one point only, Bind terrorized P5-8 Temptess from WSK or Hihlathak dungeon. They do curse all the tiime. And they don't rush into battle.

dionisy_cn wrote: 2 hours ago

I went with 0(zero) points in

Bind Demon.

My skills:

Blood Boil,

Tainted,

Blood Oath,

Engorge,

Demonic Mastery.
1point in Hex Syphon and

Sigil Death (6points spent)
No defilers, no consuming or binding.
You need to spawn

Tainted with as much -fire resist as possible.

I am not sure why do you need binded demon. No

Conviction anymore. You either put Infinity on your merc or use it yourself if you have nothing better (like MangSong).
If you really need

Bind Demon go with one point only, Bind terrorized P5-8 Temptess from WSK or Hihlathak dungeon. They do curse all the tiime. And they don't rush into battle.

Build is still centered around bound demon, which is the novelty and the draw of the build--lots of other builds that do more damage. Just figuring out the best supplement to my bound demon. Defilers work and the bound demon basically kills trash in groups of 10 at a time in P8 with one or two hits, pack leaders in 2-3 hits. So I'm not feeling inadequate with the build, but exploring the other demon options.

Perhaps two

Tainted plus a maxed out unique demon isn't better than demon + defilers, but might be nice to switch in for Stone Skins or Physical Immunes instead of spamming boil. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

dionisy_cn wrote: 2 hours ago

I went with 0(zero) points in

Bind Demon.

My skills:

Blood Boil,

Tainted,

Blood Oath,

Engorge,

Demonic Mastery.
1point in Hex Syphon and

Sigil Death (6points spent)
No defilers, no consuming or binding.
You need to spawn

Tainted with as much -fire resist as possible.

I am not sure why do you need binded demon. No

Conviction anymore. You either put Infinity on your merc or use it yourself if you have nothing better (like MangSong).
If you really need

Bind Demon go with one point only, Bind terrorized P5-8 Temptess from WSK or Hihlathak dungeon. They do curse all the tiime. And they don't rush into battle.

Ps, not doubting your comment at all. I saw a video of three tainteds decimating everything in sight. Looks like they might be the next OP build.

FerociousTerrier wrote: 2 hours ago

dionisy_cn wrote: 2 hours ago

I went with 0(zero) points in

Bind Demon.

My skills:

Blood Boil,

Tainted,

Blood Oath,

Engorge,

Demonic Mastery.
1point in Hex Syphon and

Sigil Death (6points spent)
No defilers, no consuming or binding.
You need to spawn

Tainted with as much -fire resist as possible.

I am not sure why do you need binded demon. No

Conviction anymore. You either put Infinity on your merc or use it yourself if you have nothing better (like MangSong).
If you really need

Bind Demon go with one point only, Bind terrorized P5-8 Temptess from WSK or Hihlathak dungeon. They do curse all the tiime. And they don't rush into battle.

Build is still centered around bound demon, which is the novelty and the draw of the build--lots of other builds that do more damage. Just figuring out the best supplement to my bound demon. Defilers work and the bound demon basically kills trash in groups of 10 at a time in P8 with one or two hits, pack leaders in 2-3 hits. So I'm not feeling inadequate with the build, but exploring the other demon options.

Perhaps two

Tainted plus a maxed out unique demon isn't better than demon + defilers, but might be nice to switch in for Stone Skins or Physical Immunes instead of spamming boil. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Then it you are left with

Blood Oath. It good for Both you and all your demons.

Lethargy worth one point sure. It still slows dangerous Mobs and pesky Heralds.
Syphon still good, but not as good as it was for me before. I barely have time to boil : 3

Tainted evaporate everything. Now I need to chug potions often. I am finally below 99 stack. Before I was teleporting in the middle of the trash pack or hurting demons there. then use boil to refill my mana. Not anymore on P1. Everything is dead on arrival due to Tainteds instakill most of stuff on arrival.

FerociousTerrier wrote: 1 hour ago

Ps, not doubting your comment at all. I saw a video of three tainteds decimating everything in sight. Looks like they might be the next OP build.

They nerfed the synergy from 30% to 20%,

Tainted still do some good damage though, but you need top endgame gear otherwise it will be kinda slow. Without sunder charm, Infinity and skillers the killingspeed isn't that great and even with sunder charm, Infinity and skillers fire immuns are still a pain in the butt to kill cause their fire resistance will only be brought down to 78%. God thanks there is

Blood Boil

dionisy_cn wrote: 1 hour ago

FerociousTerrier wrote: 2 hours ago

dionisy_cn wrote: 2 hours ago

I went with 0(zero) points in

Bind Demon.

My skills:

Blood Boil,

Tainted,

Blood Oath,

Engorge,

Demonic Mastery.
1point in Hex Syphon and

Sigil Death (6points spent)
No defilers, no consuming or binding.
You need to spawn

Tainted with as much -fire resist as possible.

I am not sure why do you need binded demon. No

Conviction anymore. You either put Infinity on your merc or use it yourself if you have nothing better (like MangSong).
If you really need

Bind Demon go with one point only, Bind terrorized P5-8 Temptess from WSK or Hihlathak dungeon. They do curse all the tiime. And they don't rush into battle.

Build is still centered around bound demon, which is the novelty and the draw of the build--lots of other builds that do more damage. Just figuring out the best supplement to my bound demon. Defilers work and the bound demon basically kills trash in groups of 10 at a time in P8 with one or two hits, pack leaders in 2-3 hits. So I'm not feeling inadequate with the build, but exploring the other demon options.

Perhaps two

Tainted plus a maxed out unique demon isn't better than demon + defilers, but might be nice to switch in for Stone Skins or Physical Immunes instead of spamming boil. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Then it you are left with

Blood Oath. It good for Both you and all your demons.

Lethargy worth one point sure. It still slows dangerous Mobs and pesky Heralds.
Syphon still good, but not as good as it was for me before. I barely have time to boil : 3

Tainted evaporate everything. Now I need to chug potions often. I am finally below 99 stack. Before I was teleporting in the middle of the trash pack or hurting demons there. then use boil to refill my mana. Not anymore on P1. Everything is dead on arrival due to Tainteds instakill most of stuff on arrival.

Do they have aoe with their shots or is it single target damage?

For what it's worth, the biggest problem I had with

Blood Boil (SCL) was single target fights. Bosses and Heralds were next to impossible. Bringing your bound demon down to a killable HP and leaving it there while you spam BB, hoping the mob doesn't get a solid hit in and offing your

Conviction Hephasto is pretty awful.

Mana isn't so bad with an Insight, and curse+convic made things die pretty fast. In 4.2, stuff is going to live longer, making juggling -% hp and +%hp effects an even bigger pain in the ass. If you run out of corpses to

Engorge with, you immediately start having a bad time.

All this to say that a

Tainted-focused build (instead of focusing on

Blood Boil) seems like a better answer if you can break immunes. And if you can't, you still have your bound demon and merc to pump physical damage.

Once you get Infinity, of course, it doesn't matter as much... but I've never had one on ladder, so I (and the vast vast majority of ladder players) will have to find builds and make due without.

Full demon mastery

Tainted >

Blood Boil in 4.2

Interesting to know, I have Maxed

Summon Goatman,

Demonic Mastery,

Death Mark,

Bind Demon, 1 point in rest on Demon Tree, 17 Points in Sigil: Lethargy.

So i have 5 points to distribute between

Blood Oath or

Engorge.
before the patch the + Damage taken goes to your Demon was at like 76% or 77% after + skills and

Battle Command buff, so your saying 5 hard points will get it from +26% to 50% ?!?
then Im gonna put 3 more there, to DMG soak some more, probably put last 2 at

Engorge then to heal & make the demons life steal more.

Sigil: Lethargy is still great even if the DMG taken mod got removed, it still does -50% Run/walk Speed witch is amazing imo & -50% Attack speed.
Minus enemy defence is ofc very great when ur demons is physical attacking mostly, like mine are.

Got the Book with +2 to Demon Skills, +3 to

Consume, +4 to

Blood Boil, +3 to

Engorge & +3 to

Demonic Mastery but socketed it with Protectors Stone -10 to enemy physical Damage resistance thinking it worked for the Summond demons aswell, but alas it does not, should probably unsocket it and put a Defenders Fire when I can, since

Blood Boil does more Fire Dmg than physical atm & since I will get more

Blood Oath than

Engorge also probably.
just nice for the +5% exp atm i guess, but does the +5-10% Fire skill Damage work when socketed in a

Tome / shield?

Afura wrote: 1 hour ago

FerociousTerrier wrote: 1 hour ago

Ps, not doubting your comment at all. I saw a video of three tainteds decimating everything in sight. Looks like they might be the next OP build.

They nerfed the synergy from 30% to 20%,

Tainted still do some good damage though, but you need top endgame gear otherwise it will be kinda slow. Without sunder charm, Infinity and skillers the killingspeed isn't that great and even with sunder charm, Infinity and skillers fire immuns are still a pain in the butt to kill cause their fire resistance will only be brought down to 78%. God thanks there is

Blood Boil

I understand the synergy wasn't even working pre-patch. No?

As far as fire immunes go, that's what the bound Lancer/Urdar is for. Fire/Physical immunes are a problem. And those don't seem too uncommon unfortunately.

DrunkAkuma wrote: 1 hour ago

Interesting to know, I have Maxed

Summon Goatman,

Demonic Mastery,

Death Mark,

Bind Demon, 1 point in rest on Demon Tree, 17 Points in Sigil: Lethargy.

So i have 5 points to distribute between

Blood Oath or

Engorge.
before the patch the + Damage taken goes to your Demon was at like 76% or 77% after + skills and

Battle Command buff, so your saying 5 hard points will get it from +26% to 50% ?!?
then Im gonna put 3 more there, to DMG soak some more, probably put last 2 at

Engorge then to heal & make the demons life steal more.

Sigil: Lethargy is still great even if the DMG taken mod got removed, it still does -50% Run/walk Speed witch is amazing imo & -50% Attack speed.
Minus enemy defence is ofc very great when ur demons is physical attacking mostly, like mine are.

Got the Book with +2 to Demon Skills, +3 to

Consume, +4 to

Blood Boil, +3 to

Engorge & +3 to

Demonic Mastery but socketed it with Protectors Stone -10 to enemy physical Damage resistance thinking it worked for the Summond demons aswell, but alas it does not, should probably unsocket it and put a Defenders Fire when I can, since

Blood Boil does more Fire Dmg than physical atm & since I will get more

Blood Oath than

Engorge also probably.
just nice for the +5% exp atm i guess, but does the +5-10% Fire skill Damage work when socketed in a

Tome / shield?

Clarification. In MY case, I only need 5 points in

Blood Oath to hit the 50% damage transfer

Cap (pre-patch tool tip was incorrect -- no one was getting 70+%, it just didn't show the 43%

Cap). To hit 50% (again, assuming soft points count), you need 3+(pts*2) = 50, so lvl 24

Blood Oath, in my understanding. I might have that mixed up though...

Think I'll keep Lethargy because I don't know how many times that has saved me from doll ambushes. Mine is currently 17 with +skills.

Great, got the regular Bone Breaker to solve the physical Immunity, still grinding for that Renewed Bone breaker with Minus to Phys res, witch is also a Big help for my Summon Necro and WW Barb.
with a socketed

Diadem one could add a facet with another -5% to enemy fire res and +5% fire skill dmg.
waiting for a trade on the Defenders Fire Jewel with +10% fire skill dmg & -7% to enemy fire res.
wounder how nice that might be.

DrunkAkuma wrote: 36 minutes ago

Great, got the regular Bone Breaker to solve the physical Immunity, still grinding for that Renewed Bone breaker with Minus to Phys res, witch is also a Big help for my Summon Necro and WW Barb.
with a socketed

Diadem one could add a facet with another -5% to enemy fire res and +5% fire skill dmg.
waiting for a trade on the Defenders Fire Jewel with +10% fire skill dmg & -7% to enemy fire res.
wounder how nice that might be.

I'm still a bit unclear how the sunders work with your demons. Do the monsters they hit also break immunity? Do they benefit from the -resists? Do they get the resistance penalty, too?