Personally I thing they should bring it back and leave it as is with the exception of changing that Gul rune into a Sur or Cham rune (give those runes value).
Instead they should slightly change the Martial arts. Different Charge types should not be stackable. If you have 3 charges on Phoenix Strike then the moment you get one Charge of Claws of Thunder all non Claws of Thunder charges should be deleted. Nobody ever charged up multiple skills before so there shouldn't be too much complaint about not being able to do it now.
I don't think the only viable martial arts build ever should be deleted though. Without Mosaic martial art build are not viable in Nightmare and Hell difficulties and they haven't been since the assassins introduction in 2000. I have failed many MA build attempts since my teen years.
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Personally I thing they should bring it back and leave it as is with the exception of changing that Gul rune into a Sur or Cham rune (give those runes value).
Instead they should slightly change the Martial arts. Different Charge types should not be stackable. If you have 3 charges on Phoenix Strike then the moment you get one Charge of Claws of Thunder all non Claws of Thunder charges should be deleted. Nobody ever charged up multiple skills before so there shouldn't be too much complaint about not being able to do it now.
I don't think the only viable martial arts build ever should be deleted though. Without Mosaic martial art build are not viable in Nightmare and Hell difficulties and they haven't been since the assassins introduction in 2000. I have failed many MA build attempts since my teen years.
Instead they should slightly change the Martial arts. Different Charge types should not be stackable. If you have 3 charges on Phoenix Strike then the moment you get one Charge of Claws of Thunder all non Claws of Thunder charges should be deleted. Nobody ever charged up multiple skills before so there shouldn't be too much complaint about not being able to do it now.
I don't think the only viable martial arts build ever should be deleted though. Without Mosaic martial art build are not viable in Nightmare and Hell difficulties and they haven't been since the assassins introduction in 2000. I have failed many MA build attempts since my teen years.
Can be used to make Runewords:
blizzard current doing is very correct. Ladder is clean place for people want to try new things.
Let Mosaic available only for people like old stuff...
And you can see, since warlock come in play, Mosaic no longer important. not much people talk about it or buying it.
it is almost frozen for most player. You have warlock, why you care Mosaic that is less fun and not even strong?
Let Mosaic available only for people like old stuff...
And you can see, since warlock come in play, Mosaic no longer important. not much people talk about it or buying it.
it is almost frozen for most player. You have warlock, why you care Mosaic that is less fun and not even strong?
Please be aware, all my trade is in non ladder d2r. Not warlock.
I think they should either nerf or delete it, I don't think this kind of build is a good fit for D2. Maybe they should keep it for offline or non-ladder play, but Mosaic should definitely not pollute the ladder.
Even if you change it to Jah Jah Jah, Mosaic is still OP af.
All that would do is add yet another "streamer/RM gate" to the ladder race.
But yes, adjusting martial would solve the Mosaic issue without any item changes needed. E.g. either limit it to "max 1 aoe-capable dmg skill charged up at a time" (still allow for cobra/tiger to be added as those would otherwise just become unused). Or introduce a Charge count limit instead where you can have as many different skills charged as you'd like, but your total charges at a time can't exceed 4.
It'd still give you a ton of dmg output and still remain a decent light show but it would end up a bit more in line with other top-end builds, rather than such an outlier.
At the same time, I'd be all for also increasing the Charge duration to say 30 secs to make it a bit less stressful and more fun at the same time. That drop-off is annoying AF imo. Even more so for non-Mosaic, seeing how they can't even do a quick finisher to refresh in between finding the "real" targets.
All that would do is add yet another "streamer/RM gate" to the ladder race.
But yes, adjusting martial would solve the Mosaic issue without any item changes needed. E.g. either limit it to "max 1 aoe-capable dmg skill charged up at a time" (still allow for cobra/tiger to be added as those would otherwise just become unused). Or introduce a Charge count limit instead where you can have as many different skills charged as you'd like, but your total charges at a time can't exceed 4.
It'd still give you a ton of dmg output and still remain a decent light show but it would end up a bit more in line with other top-end builds, rather than such an outlier.
At the same time, I'd be all for also increasing the Charge duration to say 30 secs to make it a bit less stressful and more fun at the same time. That drop-off is annoying AF imo. Even more so for non-Mosaic, seeing how they can't even do a quick finisher to refresh in between finding the "real" targets.
I agree with Schnorki that increasing the rune cost does not solve the problem of old Mosaic being way too strong.
I have made a few suggestions for nerfing it in the thread "What should the new Mosaic look like". I would not delete it, that punch to the face would be too hard.
forums/what-should-the-new-mosaic-look- ... 81042.html
I have made a few suggestions for nerfing it in the thread "What should the new Mosaic look like". I would not delete it, that punch to the face would be too hard.
forums/what-should-the-new-mosaic-look- ... 81042.html
Either delete or nerf heavily, but also buff/rework the MA skill tree. Old Mosaic was D3 item in D2, buffing melee sin build from tier F to tier SSS+. MA sin should be a viable build on its own, with new Mosaic (or other items) bein only final endgame upgrades, like, say, Eschuta's Temper for fire and light sorc builds.
Leave it as it is, since i still don't see how me playing whatever i like is ruining your own experience.
Sure they went too far with warlock, but what is on ptr seems ok and bring warlock back to Mosaic range.
If you REALLY care for balance, then you maybe should look at upgrading pure melee builds.
Sure they went too far with warlock, but what is on ptr seems ok and bring warlock back to Mosaic range.
If you REALLY care for balance, then you maybe should look at upgrading pure melee builds.
I was about to reply and say the same exact thing. Limit the charges, increase from 15 to even 20/25. I mean, we still gotta pick up droops and shit, right? And if that was actually in the MA tree, you could just leave mosaics alone.Schnorki wrote: 13 hours agoEven if you change it to Jah Jah Jah, Mosaic is still OP af.
All that would do is add yet another "streamer/RM gate" to the ladder race.
But yes, adjusting martial would solve the Mosaic issue without any item changes needed. E.g. either limit it to "max 1 aoe-capable dmg skill charged up at a time" (still allow for cobra/tiger to be added as those would otherwise just become unused). Or introduce a Charge count limit instead where you can have as many different skills charged as you'd like, but your total charges at a time can't exceed 4.
It'd still give you a ton of dmg output and still remain a decent light show but it would end up a bit more in line with other top-end builds, rather than such an outlier.
At the same time, I'd be all for also increasing the Charge duration to say 30 secs to make it a bit less stressful and more fun at the same time. That drop-off is annoying AF imo. Even more so for non-Mosaic, seeing how they can't even do a quick finisher to refresh in between finding the "real" targets.
I was also thinking like, Cobra and Tiger you can use whenever, right.
If you use the other 3, they cycle.
If you use just PS, you get all 3 PS buffs (nerfed)
This change could actually be made just by editing the way finishing moves works. They cycle the synergies, or you get a full PS.
And again you could just leave mosaics alone.
So you can keep your charges, you just cycle them unless you are running PS, and if you run PS it locks you out of the other 3.
Just my thoughts.
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I have no opinion on whether Mosaic was OP or not, I just never really played a Sin. Let Assassin players have say whether it was too OP for them, but I could care less.
Where it did affect me was the graphics effect overloaded and crashed my game. I play mostly windowed, and Mosaic always crashed it. When full screen it did not have that bad of an effect, but the graphics was overloaded to the point nothing could be seen on the screen.
So only thing I ask for, just tone down the effect and but it back in.
Where it did affect me was the graphics effect overloaded and crashed my game. I play mostly windowed, and Mosaic always crashed it. When full screen it did not have that bad of an effect, but the graphics was overloaded to the point nothing could be seen on the screen.
So only thing I ask for, just tone down the effect and but it back in.
SSF your reasoning makes sense. But not online. Mosaic that only costs 2 Gul and 2 Mal is massively OP so it is imbalancing the game heavily, which leads to unfairness. And that's a big problem to an online community.Hurricanr wrote: 9 hours agoLeave it as it is, since i still don't see how me playing whatever i like is ruining your own experience.
Not sure how it is on PC, but on Xbox I haven't come across someone playing Mosaic in a pub game in 6+ months.
Will buy any 3 minor keys for an Ist - message me.
Will accept keys instead of rune payments for my trades.
My free items are for players who play on xbox only
Will accept keys instead of rune payments for my trades.
My free items are for players who play on xbox only
Would follow the main advice here :
-> Buff MA skill tree, as it used to suck severely
-> Nerf Mosaic somehow in its rawpower (limiting charges number makes sense... but please give us a better way to see what there is on, counting flying orbs is... well, uneasy) but not in it's usefulness (rebuilding charges all the time is atrocious)
-> Buff MA skill tree, as it used to suck severely
-> Nerf Mosaic somehow in its rawpower (limiting charges number makes sense... but please give us a better way to see what there is on, counting flying orbs is... well, uneasy) but not in it's usefulness (rebuilding charges all the time is atrocious)
Can do trades on D2R or D2RotW
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My statement stands for online too. Me playing whatever i want in my own private game i don't see how i ruin your farming.mikelessar wrote: 8 hours agoSSF your reasoning makes sense. But not online. Mosaic that only costs 2 Gul and 2 Mal is massively OP so it is imbalancing the game heavily, which leads to unfairness. And that's a big problem to an online community.Hurricanr wrote: 9 hours agoLeave it as it is, since i still don't see how me playing whatever i like is ruining your own experience.
Fairness ? Okay, start by removing Teleport from sorc tree, then rework the entire game around fairness.
Insight echoing warlock is massively op too, and will remain OP even after patch with only a fraction of what Mosaic costs, and to be honest i don't care of how powerful warlock is/was, if you like it good for you.
Hammerdins beem massively OP for years, amazons been massively OP for years, just equip some badly rolled titans and it's game over.
And apparently the poor introduction of heralds was a way bigger problem for the online community
This game never been built around fairness.
I'd extend that beyond sin charges. Now that they've started looking at QoL stuff..just give us buff timers. Can't be that hard to implement, seeing how there are already mods doing exactly that.
What if charge-up skills were like D3 monk's - every third attack released the full effect, and the previous two were like current attacks with 1 or 2 charges respectively? No more counting charges, and no more stacking all the MA skills.Necrarch wrote: 3 hours agolimiting charges number makes sense... but please give us a better way to see what there is on, counting flying orbs is... well, uneasy) but not in it's usefulness (rebuilding charges all the time is atrocious
Then, Mosaic could add something unique. Maybe the ability to use two (but not more!) MA skills (say, LMB and RMB ones) at the same time?
@Hurricanr
Your reasoning is "There is already imbalance to the game, so it's no problem to add even more grave imbalance."
Let me comment on this from a principal philosophical standpoint:
Two wrongs don't make a right. We just have double the wrong. Proof of the existence of problems is no justification to accept and even further even more problems.
And if everything gets buffed massively so that all builds were like Mosaic, then we would have an insane power-creep that hardly anyone wants.
Your reasoning is "There is already imbalance to the game, so it's no problem to add even more grave imbalance."
Let me comment on this from a principal philosophical standpoint:
Two wrongs don't make a right. We just have double the wrong. Proof of the existence of problems is no justification to accept and even further even more problems.
And if everything gets buffed massively so that all builds were like Mosaic, then we would have an insane power-creep that hardly anyone wants.
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