Mana Sustain

oOKIWIOo wrote: 7 hours ago

Good Zealers use

Smite against Ubers [...] Before I tried Infinity I used a

The Reaper's Toll as well and in my estimation / for ME overall Infinity is the better choice (better hit chance overall and you get the lower def instantly and do not have to "wait" until

Decrepify procs).

oOKIWIOo wrote: 6 hours ago

No offense, too. But I encourage you to "play" with real builds and not rely on "theoretical calculations"

I don't play Pala much, but doesn't

Smite always hit the target regardless of attack rating and defense?
That means everything you said makes even less sense and the "real" advantage you mention is imaginary.

sh3ll wrote: 4 hours ago

oOKIWIOo wrote: 7 hours ago

Good Zealers use

Smite against Ubers [...] Before I tried Infinity I used a

The Reaper's Toll as well and in my estimation / for ME overall Infinity is the better choice (better hit chance overall and you get the lower def instantly and do not have to "wait" until

Decrepify procs).

oOKIWIOo wrote: 6 hours ago

No offense, too. But I encourage you to "play" with real builds and not rely on "theoretical calculations"

I don't play Pala much, but doesn't

Smite always hit the target regardless of attack rating and defense?
That means everything you said makes even less sense and the "real" advantage you mention is imaginary.

Yes it does, and that it the reason I use it with

Uber Baal (and the Uber Ancients to get the "right" kill order). For all other mobs I use

Zeal.

oOKIWIOo wrote: 4 hours ago

Yes it does, and that it the reason I use it with

Uber Baal (and the Uber Ancients to get the "right" kill order). For all other mobs I use

Zeal.

You could just use

Smite on all the Ubers so you don't have to waste 70% damage potential to hit them reliably with

Zeal.
I guess "good" players do it like that. At least you found a solution for your self-made problem.

sh3ll wrote: 4 hours ago

oOKIWIOo wrote: 4 hours ago

Yes it does, and that it the reason I use it with

Uber Baal (and the Uber Ancients to get the "right" kill order). For all other mobs I use

Zeal.

You could just use

Smite on all the Ubers so you don't have to waste 70% damage potential to hit them reliably with

Zeal.
I guess "good" players do it like that. At least you found a solution for your self-made problem.

You really amuse me (no offense). I get the other Ubers quicker down with

Zeal (because they have far lower def than

Uber Baal and my Merc easily brings their def down further) and my Dracs proc faster when I hit their minions, too.

You really should play this game and not crunshing numbers
I gladly let you have the last word, but I am out here now. Cheers

Use

Crescent Moon and you will never have any mana problems anymore - with wnough leech you wont need pots anmore, except emercency heals.

It it worth using a Amuet-Place for this?
After trying and get used to it - for me yessss.

@oOKIWIOo You said that your chars need this setup for mana sustain and players shouldn't complain, because it's a trade-off between damage and sustain. Turns our you're just playing your characters wrong or your setup is bad and you could have both, which invalidates the point you were trying to make.

sh3ll wrote: 1 day ago

The recent PTR notes highlighted a problem that has been there forever: mana sustain.
If they take

Conviction from the demon and fire Warlocks have to use Infinity on the merc, sustain goes down the drain and we will have to either use mana pots or change the build and

Sacrifice damage for sustain.
Not having to worry about mana makes them very nice to play right now.

There are few builds that can sustain their own mana - mainly the ones where cast speed is less important.
Many Java players have Phoenix on the main slot for sustain, even though they lose damage. You can give your merc Insight to solve this, but also lose 30% of damage or so for elemental builds.
In PvP mana pots are put in front of town, because players run out of mana after some time.

The game makes you choose between damage, fluid gameplay and constantly drinking mana pots, which is not great game design.
Blizzard clearly tried to put mechanics into the game to solve this problem, but they only make it slightly better instead of solving it.

How can this be solved?

1. Increase mana regeneration across the board. Fixes the problem for everyone passively.
2. Stop increasing mana costs past skill level 20 or make the curve flatter. Fixes the problem for everyone passively.
3. Change Energy: It directly increases mana regeneration or gives more mana (which does the same), and increases spell damage (like STR and DEX), to give casters a reason to put points into it. Fixes the problem actively, but not for melee.
4. Like 3, but also decrease melee skill costs so they don't need points in energy for sustain. Passive fix for melee, active fix for casters.
5. Make out of combat regeneration faster. The worst solution, because it interrupts gameplay, but it's a possibility.
6. Flask slots like in PoE? They're mainly used for health in PoE though, not for mana. At least you don't have to refill your

Belt, but this would require many changes to item and drops.

Thoughts?

Project Diablo 2 implements a lot of this by the way and feedback is very positive.

My thoughts?
Uh... Just drink mana pots like everyone else does?

I really don't understand how this went from "I don't want to drink mana pots or put points into Energy" to "You're losing 70%

Zeal damage" - but as oOKIWIOo said, amusing.

Just drink mana pots dude. The blue ones. You can buy them in any town and mobs drop them constantly. You'll be fine. We all do it. It's just blue drink. It tastes good too!

Cheers.

Sounds to me like you want to play a different game/ different version of Diablo. Since the very start, Diablo 2 has required players to make tradeoffs, for example putting points in energy vs vitality, thus having less life but more mana to use for casting. Or balancing more damage output vs more magic find. Or balancing magic find vs resists. There should never be a build that gives you maximum everything.

Compared to the early days, some tradeoffs have been mitigated (for example, sunder charms negated the need for either an expensive runeword or a hybrid build for sorc and other classes to deal with immunities). But one tradeof that has remained, and is a deliberate, core gameplay mechanic, is that you have a finite amount of mana. You have ways to increase it, but it means you may have to trade some other aspects of your build.

If a game does not force any sort of tradeoff, and literally everything has no downsides, that would be bad game design. You appear to be asking for the option to have a max damage build, and so much mana that you dont have to point points in energy/ drink potions. That may not be your intent, but it is how you are coming across.

For my javazon, with merc holding Infinity, yes, I had mana issues. So I swapped to

Silkweave

Boots, with the mana after each kill. My mana situation is improved, but I lost some resists. Its all about choosing what tradeoff you can live with. Whereas with my sorc, I decided to give my merc an Insight, and accept the lower damage output compared to Infinity, because it just made my playing time more enjoyable. Do I one shot every monster in the game? No, but thats OK. You face a similar choice: Is doing the absolute maximum damage whie having the absolute maximum health pool the most important thing to you? Then you will likely have mana issues, and have to drink potions (you know, the inbuilt easy way to keep mana up)

Kakumba wrote: 2 hours ago

If a game does not force any sort of tradeoff, and literally everything has no downsides, that would be bad game design. You appear to be asking for the option to have a max damage build, and so much mana that you dont have to point points in energy/ drink potions. That may not be your intent, but it is how you are coming across.

Nope. I'd be perfectly fine if there were no mana potions at all and players were forced to use sustain items.
It's just that picking up mana potions from the Ground or going to the trader and buying them isn't really a gameplay tradeoff, but a chore.

As it is, the game might just as well give players endless mana, because that's what potions do, only with the unnecessary effort of refilling the

Belt.

I still dont understand your complaint. Use items to keep your mana high then? You have been given the tools, now you need to use them. As has been suggested,

Silkweave,

Crescent Moon, Insight, all of these will keep your mana high, among other options.

Yes, it might decrease your maximum damage, that is literally the point. That is the tradeoff.