Honest Offers

Such behavior remains so prevalent because people are assholes. Plain and simple. Coincidentally, that's the same reason we don't want to just open things up to public shaming as the same assholes (and/or different assholes) will ultimately and inevitably proceed to abuse said tolerance to in turn publicly call out folks with zero real cause, simply because they don't like them and/or see them as competition.

After all, what would you say if we simply tolerated a string of "Don't trade with Skaijuice! He just keeps lowballing and even then rips you off in any drop-trade, not dropping what he promised!"-posts?
(And just for the record: The above is completely made up!)

Fact is, we don't know what exactly happens in a trade. There's plenty of people who are fine with receiving (sometimes quite significantly) less for the sake of getting a trade done faster and/or not having to deal with any extra platforms. Hell, if I could be asked to farm enough to have actual repeated GG-sales up again here, I couldn't care less if I get lowballed compared to other places, I'd rather lose a bunch of

Jah than bother suffering through the pit that is some other sites.
We literally have 0 impartial ways to differentiate between "genuinely got ripped off" and "sold for quick turn around and then got hit by sellers remorse". Just as one of countless examples. And even if we did, no volunteer mod could ever be expected to check said other pits for basically every (or at minimum every reported) trade just to see if pricing matches up or not.

And beyond simple trade pricing, we equally have 0 ways to truthfully judge what happens outside of this site. Did you actually get ripped off during a trade? Do you just not like the guy so now you're making stuff up about him? Have you never even interacted but want to blackmail someone into some sort of BS restoration-payment?

In any individual instance, it will always inevitably be your word against theirs with typically no way whatsoever for us to determine the truth.

Hell, we've had a double-call-out just a few days ago that (as it ultimately turned out) was based on an honest mistake + oversight. If we were to encourage public shaming here, rather than having cleaned that up as soon as we became aware, actual reputational damage would've been done for both and noone would be any happier.

The only thing we can realistically and fairly do is to keep note of who (supposedly) actually scammed someone. Not to act immediately (see above..no way to know the truth) but to keep a record of such reported behavior so that we do have a basis upon which to act if it turns into a repeat thing (in whichever direction). And for that, we rely entirely on everyone else's help as we can't track what we don't know because it never got reported. I'll be the first to admit that that's a rather unsatisfying result when you actually have legit reason to report someone for scamming you but as compared to everyone just blaming everyone for everything and us banning the entire user base within a month or two because we take everything for granted..certainly the lesser of two evils.

With regards to receiving what you voluntarily accepted as a trade offer though...at some point, people have to take some responsibility for their own doing. Or do you honestly expect mods to start banning people left and right solely because someone wasn't willing to wait more than 5 minutes for a better offer? And even if so, where do you draw the line? 100

Jah? 40

Jah? 1

Jah? 1

Ist? 1

Pul? (And yes, we actually had significant escalations around this very topic over less than a

Pul...)

Frankly, blaming your buyer for lowballing you when you had 0 reason to accept whatever first offer was there and simply didn't bother looking anything up (despite everything being publicly available across the various sites) is the equivalent of selling your used car to the first easy-sale website that comes to mind, rather than checking with a few vendors to actually get the best price. Hell, I've done exactly that not long ago and I certainly don't go around blaming random car sales sites for my not getting the best price..I was and remain fully aware that lazyness, speed and convenience are always paid for one way or another.

The information is there. The trading tips and guidelines are there. Make use of them or choose to live with the consequences. All one can do here is to make information more visible/even more readily available for those more likely to still need it, for which a few additional options have been discussed already (and possibly implemented by now? Can't recall atm).

With that said, if you (or anyone) can actually come up with a fair, reliable, impartial and non-abusable system that can realistically be implemented within the confines of a single site with no access to in-game events to track and subsequently get rid of scammers and wrongdoers of whatever sort, I'm all for it. Let's hear it. But anything ultimately based solely on subjective value, hearsay and "your word against his" is doomed to fail.

I didnt really read through everyones response but unless the person who bought thhe 2-99 lite dmg sc actually sold it for his asking price on that site, then I wouldnt labeled him a dishonest person or a scammer or any sort…

We have to take into account the values of these type of items as perceived value, and that some ppl value it higher than others.

The person who accepted the 40 hrs might assumed thats what he/she thinks its worth? The person who bought it think he/she could flip it for 3-4x its original value? If so , i dont think he’s doing anything wrong…

Unless it has proven with data that these type of small charms sell for thwt much. On that site, i would trust those sold values with a grain of salt.

Unless there is a talk in which the person purposely deceive the seller by making lies and put the seller under pressure etc to quickly sell it to him/her?

Otherwise, i guess everything is fair game?

Btw, did the person actually sold it on that site for his asking price?

U know 90% of the items on that site is way way overpriced…

I Make Inquiries of any new people on the site and block those who use multiple
platforms so, Im not caught up in someone's reselling scheme. If they fail to disclose the information its the same result just squelch them. I find multiple buys or big bulk buys of the same item are usually a pretty good tell that the person intends to flip it somewhere else and I screen/ squelch that out as well. I don't want to be involved in that.

As for the not shaming thing I don't know what to think about it personally,
It does seem prima facie dubious, but after reading schorki's comment. I can see why it would be a heresay hassle, on the other hand if someone was banned for a proven scam evidence provided, the release of the bnet account information would be a public service, though I admit it takes good presence of mind to capture that infomation.

Incidentally, Maybe Allowing Mediators for trades, Like Janet and Knappogue do for cross platforming but just for normal in game trades by people who would volunteer to do that could clear alot of trust issues up. Not the price complaints thats a due diligence issue in my opinion, but general trust overall esp with newer users.

i was the seller of said item, yes i got lowballed and no i am not sour about it. Is what it is. Ive taken the Jahs i got and have been giving them away in random lobbies to players in more need than myself so in the end im happy about it.

Skaijuice wrote: 3 months ago

Knappogue wrote: 3 months ago

I've played this game a decent amount, but am by no means an expert. But why is a 2-99 lite dmg sc so valuable?! Does it stack with javazon's lightning attacks or Dream's

Holy Shock aura or something? I'm obviously missing something crucial here

u answered yourself to a degree.

Shocking +1 Minimum and +44-71 Maximum Lightning Damage
Storms +1 Minimum and +19-28 Maximum Lightning Damage

the perfect storm, made even more impossible with the huge range.
And only possible on

Baal / big D sc or relevant Clvl created TZ.

I'm still looking for the cold equivalent T_T !!

But Is that charm expensive just because of the rarity (like a "collector's trophy")?
(as far as I know, lightning damage on equipment do not interact with any skill - unlike fire/cold damage that are added to the explosion of

Immolation Arrow,

Exploding Arrow and

Freezing Arrow)

And how much would be a "reasonable price"?

(historical prices are not that useful for magic/rare items as sometimes the title/description is not accurate or have little details - like "see the picture" )

smakria wrote: 3 months ago

i was the seller of said item, yes i got lowballed and no i am not sour about it. Is what it is. Ive taken the Jahs i got and have been giving them away in random lobbies to players in more need than myself so in the end im happy about it.

i was the buyer of said item, I resold it for 10 times the price and no i am not sour about it. Is what it is. After that, I sold the multiplied runes on the russian RMT-site. After that, I bought forum gold for d2jsp at a low price. Then I sold everything again on the RMT-site and repeated this 13 times. After — i bought many accounts with a large discount and began providing character leveling services at 3 times more expensive than on d2jsp. When I had enough money, I hired drivers who fulfill orders for 20% of the full price. My dream of saving up for my own yacht in order to enjoy maritime rights without a passport and visas is finally close to reality, so in the end im happy about it.

flamebellow wrote: 3 months ago

smakria wrote: 3 months ago

i was the seller of said item, yes i got lowballed and no i am not sour about it. Is what it is. Ive taken the Jahs i got and have been giving them away in random lobbies to players in more need than myself so in the end im happy about it.

i was the buyer of said item, I resold it for 10 times the price and no i am not sour about it. Is what it is. After that, I sold the multiplied runes on the russian RMT-site. After that, I bought forum gold for d2jsp at a low price. Then I sold everything again on the RMT-site and repeated this 13 times. After — i bought many accounts with a large discount and began providing character leveling services at 3 times more expensive than on d2jsp. When I had enough money, I hired drivers who fulfill orders for 20% of the full price. My dream of saving up for my own yacht in order to enjoy maritime rights without a passport and visas is finally close to reality, so in the end im happy about it.

dude be playin' 6D chess while we be playing monopoly.

M1ck wrote: 3 months ago

There are a few resellers here that offer peanuts for extremely valuable items, please be careful both old and new users alike. The item shown below was purchased here and then listed on the alternative site beginning with T within minutes. The price offered was not honest nor reasonable given how rare the charm is.

Let's calculate a little how much you have from runes bought on d2io and sold at 140 on Traderie.
Don't you think it's hypocritical to blame someone else when you're doing the same thing?

M1ck wrote: 3 months ago

If in doubt ask in the pricing section and for sure do some research before listing, especially if the roll is perfect. The seller has lost out on well over a hundred

Jah (likely much more based on previous sales), please don't let it happen to you ;0.

N.B. 20/5 small charm = 60

Jah. Sorceress Lightning Skiller +45 Life = 180

Jah (roughly).

Even if this charm is resold for x3 20/5, the profit will be 350%, not much more than yours. Don't cry, next time luck will smile on you too.

Before you talk about any morality, start with yourself. I will also tell some people, before you start blaming moderators who don't get a penny for their work, start forcing every new player to learn how to trade. Use your personal time in your endless life to make the world a little better by playing Robin Hood.

fredkid wrote: 3 months ago

Skaijuice wrote: 3 months ago

Knappogue wrote: 3 months ago

I've played this game a decent amount, but am by no means an expert. But why is a 2-99 lite dmg sc so valuable?! Does it stack with javazon's lightning attacks or Dream's

Holy Shock aura or something? I'm obviously missing something crucial here

u answered yourself to a degree.

Shocking +1 Minimum and +44-71 Maximum Lightning Damage
Storms +1 Minimum and +19-28 Maximum Lightning Damage

the perfect storm, made even more impossible with the huge range.
And only possible on

Baal / big D sc or relevant Clvl created TZ.

I'm still looking for the cold equivalent T_T !!

But Is that charm expensive just because of the rarity (like a "collector's trophy")?
(as far as I know, lightning damage on equipment do not interact with any skill - unlike fire/cold damage that are added to the explosion of

Immolation Arrow,

Exploding Arrow and

Freezing Arrow)

And how much would be a "reasonable price"?

In part scarcity (people junk them because it's not a widely known metta), worst because they drop on in certain scenarios and then u need RNGeezus to bless you with the correct preffixes/affixes. When all the stars & planets align you have the perfect version of this...presented in this example here.

The elemental damages are added to a physical hit. Lightning stuns, Cold extends the cold length for each cold effect (1secs or 2 secs for dual mod charms), fire has huge elemental ceiling , poison has innate counter-regenerating heal properties. The amazon

Pierce ability takes advantage of these effects and thus acts as a force multiplier that costs no mana.

flamebellow wrote: 3 months ago

i was the buyer of said item, I resold it for 10 times the price and no i am not sour about it. Is what it is. After that, I sold the multiplied runes on the russian RMT-site. After that, I bought forum gold for d2jsp at a low price. Then I sold everything again on the RMT-site and repeated this 13 times. After — i bought many accounts with a large discount and began providing character leveling services at 3 times more expensive than on d2jsp. When I had enough money, I hired drivers who fulfill orders for 20% of the full price. My dream of saving up for my own yacht in order to enjoy maritime rights without a passport and visas is finally close to reality, so in the end im happy about it.

^ I am attaching an explanation in case there are players here who live in Finland. ^

I also want to remind that I once drew attention to the fact that if you trade wisely, you can buy the runes you need much cheaper. But the experiment failed; it turned out to be unnecessary for anyone.

forums/enigma-and-infinity-for-everyone-t1400830.html

Almost the entire business is built on buying or producing goods cheaper and selling them more expensive.

Let's create more than 9000 more posts about how RMT is bad, that d2jsp needs to be blocked, and Traderie needs to kick out all Asians. Let's build a new communism, which my country once tried to.

Schnorki wrote: 3 months ago

Such behavior remains so prevalent because people are assholes. Plain and simple. Coincidentally, that's the same reason we don't want to just open things up to public shaming as the same assholes (and/or different assholes) will ultimately and inevitably proceed to abuse said tolerance to in turn publicly call out folks with zero real cause, simply because they don't like them and/or see them as competition.

<snip>

With that said, if you (or anyone) can actually come up with a fair, reliable, impartial and non-abusable system that can realistically be implemented within the confines of a single site with no access to in-game events to track and subsequently get rid of scammers and wrongdoers of whatever sort, I'm all for it. Let's hear it. But anything ultimately based solely on subjective value, hearsay and "your word against his" is doomed to fail.

@Schnorki @Teebling

As an example, i form part of the moderating / admin team in a FB group dealing with fashion commodities. Very limited commodities.

With well over 30,000 members it is managed by a team of 15 mods/admin with tiered access.
1) There are bots who gain an advantage on real buyers.
2) There are re-sellers, re-re-resellers. Then there are casuals who are just after product which they could not get their hands on. (because #1)
3) Dealings are made with real money (of course) or Trades.
4) We encourage call outs.
5) My mods do not get paid and we seek out star individuals who are passionate about the scene and promote them. They contribute with their free time.

After deliberation within the group we decided this implementation will benefit and here i outly why this is the basis for 4) ...which this site continues to argue against, and which i argue for.

First the disclaimer - which is placed into constitution - members are subjected to the rules that govern it..by breaking any of it they are agreed to that clause. This is presented right at the beginning - before being admitted into the group.

Anyone breaking group rules will be subject to removal from the group, with a post by a representative to create awareness. A little on that later.
(This post is a summarization of those infractions, pinned to the top for MAXIMUM expposure.)
The original call out post will be closed (usually there are many comments and "eyes" who are following the topic.)
Usually such call out posts will draw an avalanche of views and comments, obviously.
Why? Simply because of human nature- we are drawn by adversity
Such posts will get bump to the top due to the activity..and these will get moderator attention. We will let it cook.
Anyone commenting without first using their cranium will be given a time out. We keep comments civil.
The requirements for the call out is simple. Provide screen shots.
What kind of infractions? This is suited for that community: mainly people who scam, cheat or 'flake', for instance.

The only NO is showing the faces of who you are calling out due to country data protection policies. This includes private date like phone numbers and ID to ensure no doxing.

overtime, while it does add spice and drama to the group it because obvious that such a stance discourages such behaviour of scamming,

People realize that reputation is

Key to longevity it seems. Repute is obviously a

Key ingredient to the merits of their bizness afterall.

We closed the call out thread..and post an official post stickeyed to the top to 1) What we do the person in the group 2) Set about reminders to avoid being subject to certain scams.

It works, so much so that other groups copy our template and amortised it to their own group policy.

so again you can draw similiarities / crossover. Feel free to PM me if furthur consultation is required...so for consideration & review.

P.S Done in 3 mins. If there are typos they are not intended..english is my #1 language. sorrie.

flamebellow wrote: 3 months ago

M1ck wrote: 3 months ago

There are a few resellers here that offer peanuts for extremely valuable items, please be careful both old and new users alike. The item shown below was purchased here and then listed on the alternative site beginning with T within minutes. The price offered was not honest nor reasonable given how rare the charm is.

Let's calculate a little how much you have from runes bought on d2io and sold at 140 on Traderie.

resellerD2io.png

Don't you think it's hypocritical to blame someone else when you're doing the same thing?

resellerTraderie.png

M1ck wrote: 3 months ago

If in doubt ask in the pricing section and for sure do some research before listing, especially if the roll is perfect. The seller has lost out on well over a hundred

Jah (likely much more based on previous sales), please don't let it happen to you ;0.

N.B. 20/5 small charm = 60

Jah. Sorceress Lightning Skiller +45 Life = 180

Jah (roughly).

Even if this charm is resold for x3 20/5, the profit will be 350%, not much more than yours. Don't cry, next time luck will smile on you too.

Before you talk about any morality, start with yourself. I will also tell some people, before you start blaming moderators who don't get a penny for their work, start forcing every new player to learn how to trade. Use your personal time in your endless life to make the world a little better by playing Robin Hood.

None of those listings have sold, you put a price to it in red.

Io is not even on my WTB, was farmed from

The Countess because I will be doing a torch giveaway soon. How many giveaways have you done by the way?

Only reason I have the want to buy listings is that I saw you have them for stupid low prices, they are still bad by the way even after you ammended it. So I simply made better offerings, sorry to spoil your plan. I'll keep on lowering my prices if you like so you are stuck with the 300

Ist you converted ;0.

You try rolling over a 1000 Spirit and now around 800 Grief... You'll likely have a few spare runes as well mate. If I have too much of one set spare I will likely sell it to replenish another.

smakria wrote: 3 months ago

i was the seller of said item, yes i got lowballed and no i am not sour about it. Is what it is. Ive taken the Jahs i got and have been giving them away in random lobbies to players in more need than myself so in the end im happy about it.

I appreicate this response. I left a deserved like.

Ironically tho...when i gave you a S/O in an earlier post.. your tag has been removed (yet again) with no proper explanation whatsoever.
But in not doing so it would not have garnered your attention, right?

Again - anyone can check who the seller is and the buyer with a simple search. The functionality is integrated into this site.

A call out doesn't have to be negative. Positive S/O can be done, too. And it has been done on this site at various times - but their names weren't removed.

If that isnt' double standards then pray tell what is?

M1ck wrote: 3 months ago

How many giveaways have you done by the way?

Many, but not through the forum. Moreover, d2io is not the only one trading platform.

M1ck wrote: 3 months ago

Only reason I have the want to buy listings is that I saw you have them for stupid low prices, they are still bad by the way even after you ammended it.

Too lazy to fix it, I'll deal with it later. Maybe.

M1ck wrote: 3 months ago

So I simply made better offerings, sorry to spoil your plan. I'll keep on lowering my prices if you like so you are stuck with the 300

Ist you converted.

In fact, there are already more than 1500 of them. Ok, try it. Unfortunately for you, players are selling me their runes, despite the fact that you have a better offer. I'm not greedy, ordinary players benefit from your altruism, not resellers like me.

I also recommend that you interrupt my trades on American and European servers for public games.

M1ck wrote: 3 months ago

If I have too much of one set spare I will likely sell it to replenish another.

In any case, you will have to sell the accumulated runes that I did not get. And you will do it at the Traderie market price. In this case, you also buy them for cheap and sell them for high. If not, contact me, I will take them at my price.


Anyway, it's a free market. I can buy and sell anything at the price I want. I like that you are trying to help beginners, make them smarter, maybe overcome human laziness. But without new rules on this forum you won't succeed. In addition, I will find dozens of ways to circumvent restrictions if such appear (or maybe I'll just get lazy and won't do anything).

flamebellow wrote: 3 months ago

M1ck wrote: 3 months ago

How many giveaways have you done by the way?

Many, but not through the forum. Moreover, d2io is not the only one trading platform.

M1ck wrote: 3 months ago

Only reason I have the want to buy listings is that I saw you have them for stupid low prices, they are still bad by the way even after you ammended it.

Too lazy to fix it, I'll deal with it later. Maybe.

M1ck wrote: 3 months ago

So I simply made better offerings, sorry to spoil your plan. I'll keep on lowering my prices if you like so you are stuck with the 300

Ist you converted.

In fact, there are already more than 1500 of them. Ok, try it. Unfortunately for you, players are selling me their runes, despite the fact that you have a better offer. I'm not greedy, ordinary players benefit from your altruism, not resellers like me.

I also recommend that you interrupt my trades on American and European servers for public games.

M1ck wrote: 3 months ago

If I have too much of one set spare I will likely sell it to replenish another.

In any case, you will have to sell the accumulated runes that I did not get. And you will do it at the Traderie market price. In this case, you also buy them for cheap and sell them for high. If not, contact me, I will take them at my price.


Anyway, it's a free market. I can buy and sell anything at the price I want. I like that you are trying to help beginners, make them smarter, maybe overcome human laziness. But without new rules on this forum you won't succeed. In addition, I will find dozens of ways to circumvent restrictions if such appear (or maybe I'll just get lazy and won't do anything).

Of course you have done many giveaways, just not here, very convenient.... How stupid of me of course it was done on Traderie wasn’t it ;0 ;0 ;0. I look forward to you doing one soon on D2IO to give back to the community. Please make it good though because ShadowHeart, Knappogue and Kimaalfr have really upped the game (apologies if I missed anybody).

You won't lower your prices because you are too greedy ;0. For instance offering to purchase 45x

Sol per

Ist. I offer 15x

Sol per

Ist and most will get used for Insight or

Blood Ring crafting (depending on base availability and

Perfect Ruby). If my offering is not fair then I’m happy to lower the amount further. Large packs are always more expensive than smaller amounts though I agree. Also purchase them as well but they are not always available. Ladder seems to have much more available the non-ladder.

I think you misunderstand I don’t need to sell anything, helps me organise things though for sure. My goal is attempting to roll perfect rune words (I keep them btw) and do crafting.
Some of the above was purchased from here (and from Traderie), but a lot of it was obtained through regular gameplay.

1500

Ist oof seems arduous, hard pass. Says 300+ available on your WTB listing hmmmm. Why hold so many when you can hold perfect items that are worth far more, but only take up a few inventory spaces... Anyway, sounds like your method is working perfectly sitting in public lobbies all day. Think I’ll get back to actually playing the game, have a nice day

And this is why I am predominately a SSF player. I can't imagine just how rich people have gotten off my generosity (lack of inventory space) while I happily grail away barely caring about the value of items.

Actually, knowing the value of my offerings adds an unnecessary level of stress on my part.

Ugh, here's an example. I wanted to trade off a

Griffon's Eye. It's B grade, I wanted a swap for a B grade deaths web.

-offer 1 4

Jah. I declined as it's not what I asked for.
-offer 2 a couple Grief weapons. Not helping at all
-offer 3

Arachnid Mesh and peasants

Crown, still no.
-intermittent not enough. Which is fair.
-one guy's response was 'die' after I declined.
-a person wished to actually sell me a Griffin's eye... not helpful

I am waiting for someone to try stalking and kill me. That is totally bound to happen sooner or later.

Psn, chat feature is quite limited.

But, that's what I get for attempting to participate in trades.

(I know i probably could have traded

Jah runes for a deaths web, sure. But then I would need to repeat the process)

1500

Ist? 100

Jah? For what? I hope these post won't infect this community,because good intends always bring corruption like this and these multi forum members really milked this forum's naive reasonable prices.