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Description

I started new off-meta build that I was mentioning lately, well it's still an open idea I'll give it a go see how it behaves maybe switch it to some other idea I had before... First things first it's all about
Thorns
. This build is suppose to be as heavily as it can be on "reflecting dmg back to attackers" so the main idea is to bump Life as much as possible (for that I'm gonna use Bear form of Druid and some gear, charms etc.), Edge + Bramble +
Spirit of Barbs
. Now the main question comes to play and that is about the game mechanics... What applies first -- reflected dmg from
Thorns
and thorn-like stuff (like "attacker takes dmg of...") or dmg reduction (flat/nominal and/or % one)?


On top of that I think I'll go a bit into summoning and probably the Trifecta Act 2 Merc (Insight, Cure,
Prayer
) to buff healing overall. However I was thinking of going with
Hunger
as the main skill just to ensure the healing/survivability part and emphasize on the reflecting theme more.

Edit: I'm also assuming I'd need to go with the lowest possible defense so I actually maximize the effect of actually getting hit even tho there will be targets that aren't affected by reflecting dmg output (ranged units?) and well since I'm gonna use Edge don't need to worry about blocking and probably don't need to care about FHR or do I?
Description by TheDoo
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7
User avatar

TheDoo 327

Europe PC
I started new off-meta build that I was mentioning lately, well it's still an open idea I'll give it a go see how it behaves maybe switch it to some other idea I had before... First things first it's all about
Thorns
. This build is suppose to be as heavily as it can be on "reflecting dmg back to attackers" so the main idea is to bump Life as much as possible (for that I'm gonna use Bear form of Druid and some gear, charms etc.), Edge + Bramble +
Spirit of Barbs
. Now the main question comes to play and that is about the game mechanics... What applies first -- reflected dmg from
Thorns
and thorn-like stuff (like "attacker takes dmg of...") or dmg reduction (flat/nominal and/or % one)?


On top of that I think I'll go a bit into summoning and probably the Trifecta Act 2 Merc (Insight, Cure,
Prayer
) to buff healing overall. However I was thinking of going with
Hunger
as the main skill just to ensure the healing/survivability part and emphasize on the reflecting theme more.

Edit: I'm also assuming I'd need to go with the lowest possible defense so I actually maximize the effect of actually getting hit even tho there will be targets that aren't affected by reflecting dmg output (ranged units?) and well since I'm gonna use Edge don't need to worry about blocking and probably don't need to care about FHR or do I?
Answeredby Schnorki1 month agoGo to post
TheDoo wrote: 1 month ago
[..]
Now the main question comes to play and that is about the game mechanics... What applies first -- reflected dmg from Thorns and thorn-like stuff (like "attacker takes dmg of...") or dmg reduction (flat/nominal and/or % one)?
[..]
Edit: I'm also assuming I'd need to go with the lowest possible defense so I actually maximize the effect of actually getting hit even tho there will be targets that aren't affected by reflecting dmg output (ranged units?) and well since I'm gonna use Edge don't need to worry about blocking and probably don't need to care about FHR or do I?
Reduction, yes and yes. :p

Thorns reflect is based on actual final melee physical damage taken. So yes, you do want to drop all def and dmg reduction to get hit both, as much and as hard as possible. Even then though, it is limited to melee and it is affected by the target's DR and/or immunities. You'll hence find a fair few mobs where thorns will do quite little or literally nothing at all.

FHR generally becomes significantly more important as a result as getting hit more often and harder puts you into hit rec more often as well, meaning no FHR can very well just leave you locked more often than not.

See also https://d2.lc/AB/wiki/index0239.html

Ma neeeeeeema veeeeeeeze! xd

Someone much smarter than me already said once: "The real value of something doesn't reflect in a number of how much a seller is asking for it, but on how much a buyer is willing to pay for it."
7
User avatar

Schnorki 3328Moderator

PC
TheDoo wrote: 1 month ago
[..]
Now the main question comes to play and that is about the game mechanics... What applies first -- reflected dmg from
Thorns
and thorn-like stuff (like "attacker takes dmg of...") or dmg reduction (flat/nominal and/or % one)?

[..]
Edit: I'm also assuming I'd need to go with the lowest possible defense so I actually maximize the effect of actually getting hit even tho there will be targets that aren't affected by reflecting dmg output (ranged units?) and well since I'm gonna use Edge don't need to worry about blocking and probably don't need to care about FHR or do I?
Reduction, yes and yes. :p

Thorns
reflect is based on actual final melee physical damage taken. So yes, you do want to drop all def and dmg reduction to get hit both, as much and as hard as possible. Even then though, it is limited to melee and it is affected by the target's DR and/or immunities. You'll hence find a fair few mobs where
Thorns
will do quite little or literally nothing at all.

FHR generally becomes significantly more important as a result as getting hit more often and harder puts you into hit rec more often as well, meaning no FHR can very well just leave you locked more often than not.

See also https://d2.lc/AB/wiki/index0239.html
This post was marked as the best answer.

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Thorns
dmg falls rly short in higher difficulties, its pure phys dmg. Its rly fun until hell tho.
7
OP
User avatar

TheDoo 327

Europe PC
Schnorki wrote: 1 month ago
Reduction, yes and yes. :p

Thorns
reflect is based on actual final melee physical damage taken. So yes, you do want to drop all def and dmg reduction to get hit both, as much and as hard as possible. Even then though, it is limited to melee and it is affected by the target's DR and/or immunities. You'll hence find a fair few mobs where
Thorns
will do quite little or literally nothing at all.

FHR generally becomes significantly more important as a result as getting hit more often and harder puts you into hit rec more often as well, meaning no FHR can very well just leave you locked more often than not.

See also https://d2.lc/AB/wiki/index0239.html
Ye, thanks Schnorki. I don't have much intentions of hitting many if anything by myself at all (that's why I put that for FHR)... So it is like that, good to know. I might have made a mistake going Bear instead of Wolf tho since
Werebear
also gives +def. :| Oh well it's gonna be a funny story later on when I reset; why my character is called BearThePain but he is a wolfy. So physical Sunder and Amp/Decrep should do the trick for Hell then? And for everyone else non-melee based there will be summons, I think. Dunno, need to lvl him up see how he plays. :D

Ma neeeeeeema veeeeeeeze! xd

Someone much smarter than me already said once: "The real value of something doesn't reflect in a number of how much a seller is asking for it, but on how much a buyer is willing to pay for it."
7
IMO, if you are seeking to leverage
Thorns
as a Druid, you should use
Thorns
as a supplement to summon damage. Then you are increasing both your active and reactive damage output by investing in the Summoning skill tree. The added benefit of this is that summons are an effectively inexhaustible Bulwark of low-defense, no-Physical-Resistance-having Life, particularly in tandem with the aforementioned
Prayer
/Insight/Cure combo. They will get hit hard and consistently and that will be of no concern to you whatsoever.

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OP
User avatar

TheDoo 327

Europe PC
Aelanwyr wrote: 1 month ago
IMO, if you are seeking to leverage
Thorns
as a Druid, you should use
Thorns
as a supplement to summon damage. Then you are increasing both your active and reactive damage output by investing in the Summoning skill tree. The added benefit of this is that summons are an effectively inexhaustible Bulwark of low-defense, no-Physical-Resistance-having Life, particularly in tandem with the aforementioned
Prayer
/Insight/Cure combo. They will get hit hard and consistently and that will be of no concern to you whatsoever.
Yeah, I think that was my original idea. To make like a passive summoner Druid who will mostly just stand around getting hit along with his fellow animals... However, since the 'reflecting dmg' only works on phy melee part, I would need a little bit of firepower on the said summoners and myself but not for it to be the main thing since I wanted this build to be themed around
Thorns
(as main/leading part). Also I chose Druid because of significantly better Life on him and summoners in comparison to Necro I guess, even tho Necro also has an option of spamming Amp dmg which then improves everything... I don't man, just trying out silly things here at this point. :D

P.S. I also definitely want to try to make the ultimate summoner that will probably be Necro but with some animal editions on top as well (from items) and see how the ultimate "afk" gang carry build works out (I'm assuming animals will be quite weak because of no synergies but it would look cool with like huge number of creatures on the screen).

Ma neeeeeeema veeeeeeeze! xd

Someone much smarter than me already said once: "The real value of something doesn't reflect in a number of how much a seller is asking for it, but on how much a buyer is willing to pay for it."
7
User avatar

Necrarch 1804Moderator

Necromancer Europe PC
More than Amp, you should use
Iron Maiden
if you use that
Thorns
build :)

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Annihilus
/ Accepting payment in L or NL currency though I only play NL
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Enjoy the build that takes 10 mins to kill a quill rat in the
Blood Moor
.

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Aelanwyr wrote: 1 month ago
IMO, if you are seeking to leverage
Thorns
as a Druid, you should use
Thorns
as a supplement to summon damage. Then you are increasing both your active and reactive damage output by investing in the Summoning skill tree. The added benefit of this is that summons are an effectively inexhaustible Bulwark of low-defense, no-Physical-Resistance-having Life, particularly in tandem with the aforementioned
Prayer
/Insight/Cure combo. They will get hit hard and consistently and that will be of no concern to you whatsoever.
This was my primary Hardcore Ladder character this season, specifically a Hunter variant of
The Summoner
Druid who maxed
Spirit of Barbs
and had Edge on an Act 1 Mercenary. It was working great until a Blood Clan
Goatman
's
Poleaxe
cleaved his head in twain. That was during a Countess run I was playing really sloppily. Otherwise it's a pretty safe and effective build that should make it through the whole of Hell difficulty. I'll probably remake it on ladder reset in a couple days. He even did Dclone a day before he died.

For pure aesthetics the
Thorns
aura from Edge and
Spirit of Barbs
pop off well together. :)
7
OP
User avatar

TheDoo 327

Europe PC
Skaijuice wrote: 1 month ago
Enjoy the build that takes 10 mins to kill a quill rat in the
Blood Moor
.
image.png
Hehe true... Just something I had intention to try out for some time then someone tickled my thoughts again on some other post and here we are. Didn't say this build's wurf it. xd Also you know nothing about my D2 adventures Mr. Skaijuice... I remember back in the good old D2 legacy it took me about 2.5 hours to pass
Duriel
with a particular build. On Nightmare. Patience is there...still...maybe.
Necrarch wrote: 1 month ago
More than Amp, you should use
Iron Maiden
if you use that
Thorns
build :)
Oh jeez I totally forgot about that curse existing as well! Uuhhhmm, there should be wands with
Iron Maiden
charges, right?

@post Do you all think it would be better to use Edge+Bramble on myself and Reaper's Toll on Merc or vice-versa to max the effect of
Thorns
(on high res/imm phy mobs)? Or should I just stick to the original idea of having the Trifecta Merc build with extra healing (Cure+Insight+
Prayer
) even tho I don't really need/benefit from Insight myself? Note to self: Reapers for res/imm others gets IM!

Ma neeeeeeema veeeeeeeze! xd

Someone much smarter than me already said once: "The real value of something doesn't reflect in a number of how much a seller is asking for it, but on how much a buyer is willing to pay for it."
7
OP
User avatar

TheDoo 327

Europe PC
Stofsk wrote: 3 weeks ago

This was my primary Hardcore Ladder character this season, specifically a Hunter variant of
The Summoner
Druid who maxed
Spirit of Barbs
and had Edge on an Act 1 Mercenary. It was working great until a Blood Clan
Goatman
's
Poleaxe
cleaved his head in twain. That was during a Countess run I was playing really sloppily. Otherwise it's a pretty safe and effective build that should make it through the whole of Hell difficulty. I'll probably remake it on ladder reset in a couple days. He even did Dclone a day before he died.

For pure aesthetics the
Thorns
aura from Edge and
Spirit of Barbs
pop off well together. :)
Ahhhh this is music to my ears... Not the part when you lost your char but that it's actually doable to go thru with it. Thank you very much for you input good sir! :D

Ma neeeeeeema veeeeeeeze! xd

Someone much smarter than me already said once: "The real value of something doesn't reflect in a number of how much a seller is asking for it, but on how much a buyer is willing to pay for it."
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