What are the slots that, for some build, the BIS item is magic/rare/crafted?

atari wrote: 8 months ago

For magic items you can also have a look at this guide https://maxroll.gg/d2/items/valuable-magic-items

This is the best answer. I completely forgot about that guide and it is all in one article.

fredkid wrote: 8 months ago

Hi

(...)

- Rare/Crafted items that I never saw as BIS
Body
Shield

Belt
Weapon

My Barb has a crafted

Caster Belt as BiS. Combined with 2x

Wizardspike on weapon-swap it's a great way to reach the 105 FCR-breakpoint for his

Teleport (on Enigma). Possibly the same goes for some other Melee+Enigma builds that needs a bit of FCR to reach a breakpoint as most melee doesn't get that much from the +1 skill on

Arachnid Mesh.

Some rare ranged weapons can be BiS I believe. They have some unique advantages. Mainly the chance to proc amplified damage. If you get that on a perfect throwing weapon (along with ethereal, replenish quantity and tons of +damage / % damage) I believe it might be BiS for a throwing Barb.
Also on bows rares has the advantage (in addition to proccing amp) of potentially reaching up to 450% enhanced damage (where most uniques /runewords are 200-330 enhanced damage). If you get amp-damage, 400+ enhanced damage along with fools and/or multiple sockets from jeweler /mechanic I believe it just might be BiS, and at least a strong contender.

Also some melee-weapons can be BiS for pvp. Tough mainly because of player-made rules of banning Grief so that is a bit "artificial" - but if you're looking for value on pickup it still counts i suppose.

Goggen wrote: 8 months ago

My Barb has a crafted

Caster Belt as BiS. Combined with 2x

Wizardspike on weapon-swap it's a great way to reach the 105 FCR-breakpoint for his

Teleport (on Enigma). Possibly the same goes for some other Melee+Enigma builds that needs a bit of FCR to reach a breakpoint as most melee doesn't get that much from the +1 skill on

Arachnid Mesh.

While an option, unless your build wants a rare

Belt over any unique/set, you can get the extra FCR from your rare ring and use a unique/set

Belt.

Goggen wrote: 8 months ago

Some rare ranged weapons can be BiS I believe. They have some unique advantages. Mainly the chance to proc amplified damage. If you get that on a perfect throwing weapon (along with ethereal, replenish quantity and tons of +damage / % damage) I believe it might be BiS for a throwing Barb.

Throwing Barbarian normally use a Ethereal

Lacerator as BIS (33%

Amplify Damage 3)

Goggen wrote: 8 months ago

Also on bows rares has the advantage (in addition to proccing amp) of potentially reaching up to 450% enhanced damage (where most uniques /runewords are 200-330 enhanced damage). If you get amp-damage, 400+ enhanced damage along with fools and/or multiple sockets from jeweler /mechanic I believe it just might be BiS, and at least a strong contender.

How can get 450% ed ?
(i can see 380% with 300% ed prefix + 2 40% jewel)
I think Faith, Mist and Breath of the Dying should surpass the raw damage of a "god" rare weapon.

Goggen wrote: 8 months ago

Also some melee-weapons can be BiS for pvp. Tough mainly because of player-made rules of banning Grief so that is a bit "artificial" - but if you're looking for value on pickup it still counts i suppose.

I think an Ethereal Breath of the Dying / Death should surpass the raw damage of a "god" rare weapon.

@Goggen

I didn't know that weapons can have two prefix with ed (I thought they were mutual exclusive...)
but yes you can get a 450% ed rare, at least on maxroll
but it would be WAY difficult...
Odds of rolling selected values or higher: 1/2,302,455,529!!
(disconsidering any other affixes...)

I could build a "super" rare

Axe on maxroll
5% lvl 1

Amplify Damage on hit 70 ias 530% ed 250 ar repl

Eth
(actually: 5% lvl 1

Amplify Damage on hit 40 ias 450% ed 250 ar repl

Eth + 15 ias 40% ed + 15 ias 40% ed)
Odds of rolling selected mods: 1/34,747,184
Odds of rolling selected values or higher: 1/111,150,680,774,399,980
https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/b71cp0n9

But giving the odds... on real life people would probably just get get a Breath of the Dying

fredkid wrote: 8 months ago

Goggen wrote: 8 months ago

My Barb has a crafted

Caster Belt as BiS. Combined with 2x

Wizardspike on weapon-swap it's a great way to reach the 105 FCR-breakpoint for his

Teleport (on Enigma). Possibly the same goes for some other Melee+Enigma builds that needs a bit of FCR to reach a breakpoint as most melee doesn't get that much from the +1 skill on

Arachnid Mesh.

While an option, unless your build wants a rare

Belt over any unique/set, you can get the extra FCR from your rare ring and use a unique/set

Belt.

A ring could have been an option, but yeah: I do in fact want a "rare"

Belt. Mainly for the 24 FHR. Combined with arreat's or g-face (whichever you prefer) that get's me past the 48 FHR breakpoint. Add +life and +strength on that

Belt and it can't be beat imo.

fredkid wrote: 8 months ago

Goggen wrote: 8 months ago

Some rare ranged weapons can be BiS I believe. They have some unique advantages. Mainly the chance to proc amplified damage. If you get that on a perfect throwing weapon (along with ethereal, replenish quantity and tons of +damage / % damage) I believe it might be BiS for a throwing Barb.

Throwing Barbarion normally use a Ethereal

Lacerator as BIS (33%

Amplify Damage 3)

Normally yeah. I'm not a throw-barb expert (I'm pretty far off actually), but I'm pretty sure I remember hearing that a godly rare would be BiS. Probably either as second weapon (in addition to

Lacerator) for the double-throw or because a rare can have more damage compared to the 180-210 % enhanced damage on Lacerater. ... or it could even be a range-thing (again tough: NOT an expert on throwing barbs).

fredkid wrote: 8 months ago

Goggen wrote: 8 months ago

Also on bows rares has the advantage (in addition to proccing amp) of potentially reaching up to 450% enhanced damage (where most uniques /runewords are 200-330 enhanced damage). If you get amp-damage, 400+ enhanced damage along with fools and/or multiple sockets from jeweler /mechanic I believe it just might be BiS, and at least a strong contender.

How can get 450% ed ?
(i can see 380% with 300% ed prefix + 2 40% jewel)
I think Faith, Mist and Breath of the Dying should surpass the raw damage of a "god" rare weapon.

It's because rares can have multiple prefixes, so you can have both Cruel- (201-300 enhanced damage) + Master's (101-150 enhanced damage) prefixes. Combine that with fools (+damage and AR) and /or multiple sockets you can get inzane damage. It probably won't still win in "raw damage", but if you add the

Amplify Damage proc into it you might have a winner (especially on p8).

fredkid wrote: 8 months ago

Goggen wrote: 8 months ago

Also some melee-weapons can be BiS for pvp. Tough mainly because of player-made rules of banning Grief so that is a bit "artificial" - but if you're looking for value on pickup it still counts i suppose.

I think an Ethereal Breath of the Dying / Death should surpass the raw damage of a "god" rare weapon.

No. For the same reasons as those mentioned regarding rare bows the godly rares can surpass Breath of the Dying and Death.

Last thoughts about Rare Weapon x Runeword:
- Remember that Death has up to 49% Deadly Strike and 50% Crushing Blow, Breath of the Dying has 60 IAS, Faith has

Fanaticism 12-15 and Mist have

Concentration 8-12, both increase a lot your overall damage compared to a weapon with the same "raw damage"
- For melee weapons, you have to be very lucky twice!!! (one time to get the two high % ed prefixes and a second time for the item to be Ethereal)

fredkid wrote: 8 months ago

Last thoughts about Rare Weapon x Runeword:
- Remember that Death has up to 49% Deadly Strike and 50% Crushing Blow, Breath of the Dying has 60 IAS, Faith has

Fanaticism 12-15 and Mist have

Concentration 8-12, both increase a lot your overall damage compared to a weapon with the same "raw damage"
- For melee weapons, you have to be very lucky twice!!! (one time to get the two high % ed prefixes and a second time for the item to be Ethereal)

Obviously there is no denying the luck required for the godly rares. That is a bit of a separate discussion tough imo. Looking past the luck-issue I'd say:

For Melee:
-Death has 0 IAS and this limits it severely. Even with the Crushing Blow and Deadly Strike on it I'd say it's mostly only for left-hand on dualwielders for this reason. For main-hand weapons godly rares tend to beat it.
-Breath of the Dying does have 60 IAS, but as mentioned in your own case the rares can also get a fair bit of IAS. 40 IAS will for most builds (along with other staples you'll likely use regardless, as Highlords and 20-IAS Gloves) let you reach max attack-frames either way, and the 60 vs 40 won't really make any difference.

The fact that the truly godly rare melee-weapons are in fact BiS (when excluding Grief) is generally agreed upon as far as I know.


For Ranged
Yeah, this is a lot more open (for the reasons you mentioned, and also the insane +max-damage on

Windforce). As I said I believe it just might be BiS, and at least a strong contender, but I'm not certain on this one myself. In either case (as said) i don't expect a rare to win in "raw damage", but that it would have to come from the

Amplify Damage pushing it over the top.
That's obviously a lot harder to compare, and my guess is that in the end the "winner" would depend on what you play against (p1 vs p8, and also what zone/density you farm). The curse is an AoE that can hit multiple enemies if you're facing large groups. On high density p8, like p8 cows, I think the rare might take it.

Skaijuice wrote: 8 months ago

The stuff that most don't bother picking up. #truestory

Question on this: can one also get +6 from

Charsi if the White item that is imbued by her already has +3?

fraggykrueger wrote: 8 months ago

Question on this: can one also get +6 from

Charsi if the White item that is imbued by her already has +3?

No.
Imbue item lost all original properties (so no reason the seek an almost perfect defense armor or items with specific affixes)
(except for ethereal - forums/quest-tools-of-the-trade-do-imbu ... 53154.html )

And as

Charsi create a rare, the max you can get is +5 not +6 (+3 to specific skill and +2 to necro / Skill tree)

fredkid wrote: 8 months ago

Last thoughts about Rare Weapon x Runeword
....
- For melee weapons, you have to be very lucky twice!!! (one time to get the two high % ed prefixes and a second time for the item to be Ethereal)

Actually for mele weapons (if you are seeking a rare with up to 450% ed), only worth to look the Ethereal ones
(as 450% ed on a non-ethereal is equivalent to ~267% ed on an etheral weapon of the same type, which is way less than you can get from Oath, Death or Breath of the Dying)