basicnecromancy wrote: 11 months ago
There's another niche case to use PSkulls for rerolling: To get a summoner rare shrnken head. It's a little bit complicated but basicaly you level a char till lvl 11. Use a high level head as imbue quest. Then reroll it with PSkulls. By this way, you can get theoretically +2 necro skills +3 Raise Skeleton and +3 Skeleton Mastery.
I mean, theoretically. I saw an item obtained by this method on Reddit close to this but it i really a long shot and I'm not sure if it is worth.
The problem with reroll anything other that a Diadem, is that the item ilvl will decrease on each try ... and you need a LOT of tries to get something good.... Diadem because of the
Magic level: 18 + Quality level: 85
will always be able to roll all affixes with this formula no matter how many times you re-roll and no matter your Character level
(even Tiara was not able to do the same)
But with you want lower level affixes, you can re-roll itens with a Quality level + Magic level equal to what you want.
In the case of a Head with +2 to skill you need Quality level + Magic level= 50+ Hierophant Trophy and any elite Head will be enough (even with a 1 Level character)
(don't understand why level 11 is required on your tip... Quality level + Magic level is a "min effective ilvl", it is not added with other levels, if "resulting ilvl" would be lower than that number that number is used instead.)
Haven't dealt with this in ages but if I recall correctly, the process effectively abuses what may or may not be considered a bug in ilvl-dropping in that the ilvl drops (via the skulls recipe) but an item's qlvl (which typically starts out the same upon item drop) can't drop below the item's base qlvl.
To get a 5/5 head, you need an affix level high enough to get +2 summon skills (40) or better yet +2 necro (50).
Since alvl is effectively based on qlvl rather than ilvl after ilvl has been dropped (simplifying the whole process a bit), you can figure out the minimum qlvl you need to roll +2 summon/necro based on the affix level which (skipping the math) leaves you with a minimum qlvl of 70 for +2 summon or 75 for +2 necro (again assuming I'm remembering this all correctly ^^).
If you then look at the various necro heads available, only two actually come with a qlvl of 70+ (and 75+ actually, same choices): Succubus Skull Bloodlord Skull
The minimum qlvl is why you need to start the whole process with a "high level shrunken head" (i.e. one of the two above).
Now, you take one of those heads and if it happened to drop rare, great. If not, imbue it. Basically, you need a starting rare head with a high enough qlvl to get +2 summon/necro on it. At this point, you will generally not get +3 Raise Skeleton/mastery yet (see imbue note below for the exception).
That's because in order to get Raise Skeleton/Skeleton Mastery, you need an ilvl that is low enough to roll tier 1 staffmods which is lvl 24 or less if I recall correctly.
Or better yet, ilvl 11 or lower so as to not only make those mods possible but to also maximize your odds of getting them.
In order to achieve that, you have to drop the ilvl of the head by rolling it with the p.skulls recipe. You do that on a lvl 1 char in order to drop the ilvl as fast as possible. In either case (Succubus or bloodlord, regardless of source lvl), the first reroll will still leave you with an item lvl too high to roll tier 1 mods. The second reroll will be able to roll +5/5. And the third reroll and any subsequent ones will be low enough to maximize your odds at t1 mods as well.
You can skip the first couple of rerolls and go directly to maximizing your odds by starting with a White head and imbuing it with a lvl 7 or lower char. That'll give you an ilvl of 11 (or less if char <7) on your starting rare, meaning you immediately start with max odds for your t1 mods.
With or without the imbue, you can just keep rerolling after you hit those max odds but make sure to never do so on a char higher than 18 as that's when you start actually raising the ilvl above max odds again.
TL;DR:
- Been ages so take my Memory with a grain of salt also never tested myself in D2:R
- Find a White or rare Bloodlord Skull or Succubus Skull
- If White, imbue with a lvl 7 or lower char
- If rare, reroll with p. skulls recipe on a lvl 1 char 3 times (unless you get lucky and end up with 5/5 on try #2 of course)
- Keep rerolling with p. skulls recipe until you get your 5/5, making sure to only do so on a char that is lvl 18 or lower
[to be on the safe side, just do everything on a lvl 1]
From what i understand that "trick" will not work...
It you reroll a item with quality level + magic livel = 50.
The result will be the "same" for any charcater on level 50 or below (even if use the cube to set the ilvl of the item to 1)
Cam someone confirm this?
Magic lvl ties into alvl but is specific to circs, staves, orbs and wands I believe it was. Not heads. So ignore that here.
And just because curiosity needs to be satisfied and ancient knowledge re-confirmed post-D2:R...went ahead and did that
Yes, this still works. Sure as hell not gonna blow hours to get a 5/5 specifically but the concept still holds, allowing for +2 necro and tier 1 skills (here Bone Armor) to roll on the same item:
The exact skill, number of skills and skill levels are then simply random and a matter of luck.
That's why Diadem awalys have at least 103 "affix level" (with inbue/drop or cube formula)
So you just need a Head with "quality level" 50 not 75 to get +2 to Necro Skills
3 - Maybe the +x to specific skill are based on the "item level" and not "affix level" thats why you could end up with a L50+ affix and a L23- +x to skill
(But it certainly follow some different rule )
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fredkid wrote: 1 year ago
You will need a Diadem with "base item level" = 180 - "your level"
(180 * .4 + 18 = 90)
You are forgetting the qLvl (quality level). Each item has a quality level that is predetermined (based on the item type) and it doesn't matter where it dropped or what you do with the item. If an item has a qLvl higher than its iLvl then the possible affixes are determined based on its qLvl instead of the iLvl. And since Diadem has a qLvl 85 and a magic level bonus of +18, all Diadems can have any affix regardless of its iLvl. Even if a Diadem's iLvl is 1, all affixes are still possible due to the high qLvl on it and the magic level bonus (the affix level will be 85+18 = 103).
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He's talking about a different thing. Or rather, the same thing in a different context. And actually slightly incomplete.
(In that context, the alvl will be capped back down)
But in the context of the discussion here and your questioning of the "trick", referring to heads, it very much matters that there is no magic level as that changes how all of that behaves. The alvl isn't a flat add anymore, it becomes (in this particular context - there is a 3rd case just to make things more confusing) 2*qlvl-99. So if you only had a qlvl of 50 (which would suffice if you got to use the magic lvl route), you'd get 2*50-99=1 which is nowhere near what you need as an alvl.
The basis for the calculation of the affix level is the item level. The ilvl of a Crafted Item is equal to half the level of the crafting character (rounded down) plus half the ilvl of the input item (rounded down). Put another way:
(1) ilvl = int(.5 * clvl) + int(.5 * ilvl)
The ilvl calculated in (1) has to undergo two checks and possible modifications. First, ilvl is capped at 99:
(2) if ilvl > 99 then ilvl = 99
Then qlvl and ilvl are compared. The higher number is used for further calculations:
(3) if qlvl > ilvl then ilvl = qlvl
The final step is to determine the affix level. If the ilvl is smaller than 99 – int(qlvl/2) then the affix level is ilvl – int(qlvl/2). Otherwise the affix level is ilvl*2 – 99:
(4) if ilvl < (99 – int(qlvl/2)= then affix level = ilvl - int(qlvl/2) else affix level = ilvl * 2 - 99.
In this case (considering alway ilvl < qlvl)
qlvl 50 -> afvl 25
qlvl 75 -> aflv 50
qlvl 85 + mavl 18 (Diadem) -> afvl 107 (if mavl is applid before the formula) or afvl 89 if mavl is applied after the formula)
If this formula is alway applied, I think malv is applied before it (or else you couldn't always get all affix with a rerolled/imbue Diadem)
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qlvl 85 + mavl 18 (Diadem) -> afvl 107 (if mavl is applid before the formula) or afvl 89 if mavl is applied after the formula)
If this formula is alway applied, I think malv is applied before it (or else you couldn't always get all affix with a rerolled/imbue Diadem)
...
Ignoring a potentially higher ilvl, given the context:
50: 50-floor(50/2) = 25, yes
75: 75*2-99 = 51, not 50
85 Diadem: 85 + 18 = 103, not 107 (then capped back down to 99)
lvl 66 is when the check doesn't spit out < anymore and where you hence switch from ilvl - int(qlvl/2) to ilvl * 2 - 99
if you have a magic level > 0, neither applies and you simply get ilvl + mlvl
Schnorki wrote: 11 months ago
75: 75*2-99 = 51, not 50
Calculated right... wrote wrong...
----
Schnorki wrote: 11 months ago
...
lvl 66 is when the check doesn't spit out < anymore and where you hence switch from ilvl - int(qlvl/2) to ilvl * 2 - 99
if you have a magic level > 0, neither applies and you simply get ilvl + mlvl
Now the rule is clear
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departure wrote: 11 months ago
Adding to the OP's idea for this thread, what are all the Hel runes for? It seems like there is unending demand for them. Just re-rolls?
I asked this on other thread, and nobody said anything other then re-roll...
It's like 98% re-rolls and then the occasional BOTD and Death rolls.
I am permanently no longer accepting Ort or Thul runes as trade currency
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departure wrote: 11 months ago
Adding to the OP's idea for this thread, what are all the Hel runes for? It seems like there is unending demand for them. Just re-rolls?
Pretty much just rerolls. I had to reroll like 30 times to get a 35fcr Spirit
departure wrote: 11 months ago
Adding to the OP's idea for this thread, what are all the Hel runes for? It seems like there is unending demand for them. Just re-rolls?
Pretty much just rerolls. I had to reroll like 30 times to get a 35fcr Spirit
And they do have a value, you can grab 1 Ist for 5 Hel so I wouldn't ignore them when they pop out from a chest!
Haven't dealt with this in ages but if I recall correctly, the process effectively abuses what may or may not be considered a bug in ilvl-dropping in that the ilvl drops (via the skulls recipe) but an item's qlvl (which typically starts out the same upon item drop) can't drop below the item's base qlvl.
To get a 5/5 head, you need an affix level high enough to get +2 summon skills (40) or better yet +2 necro (50).
Since alvl is effectively based on qlvl rather than ilvl after ilvl has been dropped (simplifying the whole process a bit), you can figure out the minimum qlvl you need to roll +2 summon/necro based on the affix level which (skipping the math) leaves you with a minimum qlvl of 70 for +2 summon or 75 for +2 necro (again assuming I'm remembering this all correctly ^^).
If you then look at the various necro heads available, only two actually come with a qlvl of 70+ (and 75+ actually, same choices): Succubus Skull Bloodlord Skull
The minimum qlvl is why you need to start the whole process with a "high level shrunken head" (i.e. one of the two above).
Now, you take one of those heads and if it happened to drop rare, great. If not, imbue it. Basically, you need a starting rare head with a high enough qlvl to get +2 summon/necro on it. At this point, you will generally not get +3 Raise Skeleton/mastery yet (see imbue note below for the exception).
That's because in order to get Raise Skeleton/Skeleton Mastery, you need an ilvl that is low enough to roll tier 1 staffmods which is lvl 24 or less if I recall correctly.
Or better yet, ilvl 11 or lower so as to not only make those mods possible but to also maximize your odds of getting them.
In order to achieve that, you have to drop the ilvl of the head by rolling it with the p.skulls recipe. You do that on a lvl 1 char in order to drop the ilvl as fast as possible. In either case (Succubus or bloodlord, regardless of source lvl), the first reroll will still leave you with an item lvl too high to roll tier 1 mods. The second reroll will be able to roll +5/5. And the third reroll and any subsequent ones will be low enough to maximize your odds at t1 mods as well.
You can skip the first couple of rerolls and go directly to maximizing your odds by starting with a White head and imbuing it with a lvl 7 or lower char. That'll give you an ilvl of 11 (or less if char <7) on your starting rare, meaning you immediately start with max odds for your t1 mods.
With or without the imbue, you can just keep rerolling after you hit those max odds but make sure to never do so on a char higher than 18 as that's when you start actually raising the ilvl above max odds again.
TL;DR:
- Been ages so take my Memory with a grain of salt also never tested myself in D2:R
- Find a White or rare Bloodlord Skull or Succubus Skull
- If White, imbue with a lvl 7 or lower char
- If rare, reroll with p. skulls recipe on a lvl 1 char 3 times (unless you get lucky and end up with 5/5 on try #2 of course)
- Keep rerolling with p. skulls recipe until you get your 5/5, making sure to only do so on a char that is lvl 18 or lower
[to be on the safe side, just do everything on a lvl 1]
Afaiu this explanation means, to get +5 summoning for Druid pelt the only possibly way is imbue, right?
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Any rare/crafted Druid Pet (and similar items) may have up to 5 to a specific skill if have enough ilvl or qlvl (+2 to class skill or +2 to skill tab and +3 to a specific skill).
The problem is that the +X to specific skill (we call staff mod) that may roll are based on the ilvl, so items with high ilvl cannot have +X to low level skills (like L1 or L6 skills)
More details here https://maxroll.gg/d2/resources/staff-mods
(search "37 <= iLVL <= 99" for the table )
At the same time you need a high ilvl or qlvl for the item to have +2 to class skill or +2 to skill tab affix.
So, the only way to have a item with +2 to class skill or +2 to skill tab and +1-3 to a L1/L6 skill is to have a rare/crafted from a base item with high qlvl (like Sky Spirit - qlvl 83 - or - Dream Spirit - qlvl 85) and guarantee a low ilvl.
The most common ways to do this are:
- to imbue a normal item with a low level character (ilvl = character level)
- to cube a rare item (Recipe: Low Quality Rare Item of Same Type) until it reaches a ilvl low enough.
Haven't dealt with this in ages but if I recall correctly, the process effectively abuses what may or may not be considered a bug in ilvl-dropping in that the ilvl drops (via the skulls recipe) but an item's qlvl (which typically starts out the same upon item drop) can't drop below the item's base qlvl.
To get a 5/5 head, you need an affix level high enough to get +2 summon skills (40) or better yet +2 necro (50).
Since alvl is effectively based on qlvl rather than ilvl after ilvl has been dropped (simplifying the whole process a bit), you can figure out the minimum qlvl you need to roll +2 summon/necro based on the affix level which (skipping the math) leaves you with a minimum qlvl of 70 for +2 summon or 75 for +2 necro (again assuming I'm remembering this all correctly ^^).
If you then look at the various necro heads available, only two actually come with a qlvl of 70+ (and 75+ actually, same choices): Succubus Skull Bloodlord Skull
The minimum qlvl is why you need to start the whole process with a "high level shrunken head" (i.e. one of the two above).
Now, you take one of those heads and if it happened to drop rare, great. If not, imbue it. Basically, you need a starting rare head with a high enough qlvl to get +2 summon/necro on it. At this point, you will generally not get +3 Raise Skeleton/mastery yet (see imbue note below for the exception).
That's because in order to get Raise Skeleton/Skeleton Mastery, you need an ilvl that is low enough to roll tier 1 staffmods which is lvl 24 or less if I recall correctly.
Or better yet, ilvl 11 or lower so as to not only make those mods possible but to also maximize your odds of getting them.
In order to achieve that, you have to drop the ilvl of the head by rolling it with the p.skulls recipe. You do that on a lvl 1 char in order to drop the ilvl as fast as possible. In either case (Succubus or bloodlord, regardless of source lvl), the first reroll will still leave you with an item lvl too high to roll tier 1 mods. The second reroll will be able to roll +5/5. And the third reroll and any subsequent ones will be low enough to maximize your odds at t1 mods as well.
You can skip the first couple of rerolls and go directly to maximizing your odds by starting with a White head and imbuing it with a lvl 7 or lower char. That'll give you an ilvl of 11 (or less if char <7) on your starting rare, meaning you immediately start with max odds for your t1 mods.
With or without the imbue, you can just keep rerolling after you hit those max odds but make sure to never do so on a char higher than 18 as that's when you start actually raising the ilvl above max odds again.
TL;DR:
- Been ages so take my Memory with a grain of salt also never tested myself in D2:R
- Find a White or rare Bloodlord Skull or Succubus Skull
- If White, imbue with a lvl 7 or lower char
- If rare, reroll with p. skulls recipe on a lvl 1 char 3 times (unless you get lucky and end up with 5/5 on try #2 of course)
- Keep rerolling with p. skulls recipe until you get your 5/5, making sure to only do so on a char that is lvl 18 or lower
[to be on the safe side, just do everything on a lvl 1]
Afaiu this explanation means, to get +5 summoning for Druid pelt the only possibly way is imbue, right?
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