Metamorphosis vs Jalal's Mane

Blizzard wrote:

We want this Rune Word to really compete for best-in-slot for Shapeshifter Druids.

Is it competing enough to not just be a prebuff helmet though? I'll be assuming an

Eth

The Reaper's Toll as the BiS weapon here (I'll die on this hill).

1) To reach fastest FPA you need:

• With 40 IAS (incl. Bear Mark) lvl 38
  Werewolf. (Gloves+Amulet)
• With 55 IAS and Bear Mark lvl 21
  Werewolf. Saves 17 skill points. (Gloves+Amulet+IAS Jewel in helmet)

2) Cannot be frozen on Metamorphosis is mostly redundant as you cannot really afford cycling out

Raven Frost:

• Raven Frost allows you to wield reaper without any points put into dex.
• Ignore target's defense doesn't apply to Uniques/Bosses. That 20DEX + 250AR gives you so much attack rating, multiplied by both
  Heart of Wolverine and Fury, that it translates to 15-20% additional hit chance on those enemies.

3) You need a

Cham instead of a ~

Pul and lvl 67 instead of lvl 42 to use it

4) With Metamorphosis you lose out on:

• 30% FHR
• 20-35 all resistances (assuming 15IAS + up to 15@ jewel)
• 5 mana per kill
• Even more attack rating

5) What do you get with the runeword?

• 25% Crushing Blow
• Whatever skills you can find on the base for Metamorphosis +1 extra to shapeshift tree
• The ease of use. Not exchanging your helmets every 3 minutes.

Now I ask you. Would you use Metamorphosis over

Jalal's Mane? If so, would it be for any other reason than convenience on not wanting to swap headgear around?

Thank you for coming to my TEDtalk.

Jalal's, and will hardly ever use Metamorphosis every 3 mins for buff, too boring

Steccothal wrote: 1 year ago

Jalal's, and will hardly ever use Metamorphosis every 3 mins for buff, too boring

They also didn't mention updates on the restrict states which will be a terrible game-play experience without being able to re-bo / cast/

Teleport for 3 minutes. We all know most aren't going to have a 5+ BO CTA early on...

Th3ory wrote: 1 year ago

They also didn't mention updates on the restrict states which will be a terrible game-play experience without being able to re-bo / cast/

Teleport for 3 minutes. We all know most aren't going to have a 5+ BO CTA early on...

Well, at least the patch is hitting a whole 1 day before S3 so plenty of time to notice they didn't patch the obvious crap and broke even more upon release so...yeah, nevermind.

Schnorki wrote: 1 year ago

Th3ory wrote: 1 year ago

They also didn't mention updates on the restrict states which will be a terrible game-play experience without being able to re-bo / cast/

Teleport for 3 minutes. We all know most aren't going to have a 5+ BO CTA early on...

Well, at least the patch is hitting a whole 1 day before S3 so plenty of time to notice they didn't patch the obvious crap and broke even more upon release so...yeah, nevermind.

I guess we are used to this and comes with the territory huh?

It doesn't seem worth the

Cham given OP's analysis.

Th3ory wrote: 1 year ago

Schnorki wrote: 1 year ago

Th3ory wrote: 1 year ago

They also didn't mention updates on the restrict states which will be a terrible game-play experience without being able to re-bo / cast/

Teleport for 3 minutes. We all know most aren't going to have a 5+ BO CTA early on...

Well, at least the patch is hitting a whole 1 day before S3 so plenty of time to notice they didn't patch the obvious crap and broke even more upon release so...yeah, nevermind.

I guess we are used to this and comes with the territory huh?

Slightly..

Great analysis, really doesn't seem that great now. Was considering rolling a druid for s3 for this one but I'm going to rethink this. Pally it may well be...

Looking at it some more..I'm inclined to say Metamorphosis has a spot in boss-killer builds (i.e. clone hunters/uber runners) as you'd likely prefer the crushing and such over what you

Sacrifice for it.

But yeah, for pretty much everything else, Jalal's still feels like it'd be my preferred choice (if I ever were to actually play a shifter ^^).

I'm surprised to read such bad reviews of Metamorphosis. My experience with it, as a

Werebear, has been spectacular. I had a very hard time finding a good base for it (guess no one keeps pelts with +

Werebear skills), but finally did and made it in a +3

Maul pelt. This means the pelt gives me +8 to

Maul, which was updated on 2.4 to get +30% damage, +15% attack rating per level and 3% attack speed per

Charge.

Werebear skill was also improved to add more damage. This, together with Mark of the Bear's ias buff (which is like

Fanaticism's, much more powerful than the usual ias derived from gear), DR and uninterruptibility of attacks makes for some unstoppable bearly madness. The CBF, CB, all res, stats...everything is great. Skipping

Raven Frost means an extra ring with multiple bonuses or (in my case) bul-katho's wedding band. The life, leech and +1 skills are great for my build. I wield a Death

Glorious Axe, which together with a Faith merc, ias gloves,

Highlord's Wrath and level 42

Maul, allow me to reach the best frames breakpoint (6 for 2h axes). Dps is around 100k. Attack rating is always an issue of course, it's hard to keep it above 8k before

Enchant but charms and a rare ring help a lot. I cannot speak for werewolves (haven't tried it), but can 100% recommend it for dedicated werebears (with a proper base).

Maldoror wrote: 7 months ago

...

Werebear...

From Metamorphosis' page with my own quote

Queegon wrote: 1 year ago

For fireclaw

Werebear, however, it buffs up both your fire and physical damage output significantly with wereform and

Maul: Skill on top making it a viable choice. (+3

Fire Claws, +

Maul: Skill/

Armageddon/

Heart of Wolverine)

Honestly, and as you can see from the write-up, I didn't even consider a pure physical

Werebear because, well, it's not great without access to

Fury: Skill, definitely worse than Furydruid. But I agree with you on the

Werebear + Metamorphosis being better than

Werewolf + Metamorphosis. All of the reasoning above was for

Werewolf.

As for the BK ring, +1 skill is meaningless, if you don't hit. That +250 to AR and extra AR from 20 dex is an enormous boon to skip on. Life (per level) is a flat bonus that doesn't get multiplied by wereforms/

Battle Orders, so literally 50 extra health on top of your ~4k+. A life leech ring with AR, maybe even all resists is better than that. A GG ring would be better than

Raven Frost. For fire claw

Werebear, you'd be using Infinity mercenary, so -83% defense to enemies which would translate to needing less AR.

Queegon wrote: 7 months ago

Honestly, and as you can see from the write-up, I didn't even consider a pure physical

Werebear because, well, it's not great without access to

Fury: Skill, definitely worse than Furydruid. But I agree with you on the

Werebear + Metamorphosis being better than

Werewolf + Metamorphosis. All of the reasoning above was for

Werewolf.

As for the BK ring, +1 skill is meaningless, if you don't hit. That +250 to AR and extra AR from 20 dex is an enormous boon to skip on. Life (per level) is a flat bonus that doesn't get multiplied by wereforms/

Battle Orders, so literally 50 extra health on top of your ~4k+. A life leech ring with AR, maybe even all resists is better than that. A GG ring would be better than

Raven Frost. For fire claw

Werebear, you'd be using Infinity mercenary, so -83% defense to enemies which would translate to needing less AR.

I completely disagree with your statement that

Werebear, with uninterruptible attacks and huge damage and defense, isn't great just because it doesn't have the

Werewolf's Fury. Have you tried it or are you supposing? If the former, what build/gear did you run?

The BK's +1 skills isn't negligible when it means the 1 point difference that allows best frames per attack with a set up that offers 100% CB and 100% DS. With it I can still keep some free inventory space for loot. Also, each +1 skills means +52% damage and +22% AR (

Maul,

Werebear and HoW), as well as more life (

Lycanthropy) and defense. I still hit 80% of the time, which isn't great but isn't "not hitting". Having cbf on

Helm,

Raven only offers 20 dex and 250 ar, which is definitely tasty but not as important in my build. This argument isn't about

Raven v/s bk in general, but in particular. I also wear a GG ring on the other finger with AR, LL, resists and life. If I were to add another SS charm to my inventory, I'd change the BK for another GG ring, not

Raven.

Haven't tried

Fire Claws, but I'd totally go for Infinity as you mention. That erases all ar troubles.

Maldoror wrote: 7 months ago

I completely disagree with your statement that

Werebear, with uninterruptible attacks and huge damage and defense, isn't great just because it doesn't have the

Werewolf's Fury. Have you tried it or are you supposing? If the former, what build/gear did you run?

Don't take it personally against your build. If you have fun with it, it's great either way. I'm merely comparing the two.
If you are going with numbers, furydruid has 50-80% more DPS (50 without marks, 80 with marks) and attacks at weapon range at quick succession thus having higher clear speed for denser areas. Also moves faster.

Queegon wrote: 7 months ago

Maldoror wrote: 7 months ago

I completely disagree with your statement that

Werebear, with uninterruptible attacks and huge damage and defense, isn't great just because it doesn't have the

Werewolf's Fury. Have you tried it or are you supposing? If the former, what build/gear did you run?

Don't take it personally against your build. If you have fun with it, it's great either way. I'm merely comparing the two.
If you are going with numbers, furydruid has 50-80% more DPS (50 without marks, 80 with marks) and attacks at weapon range at quick succession thus having higher clear speed for denser areas. Also moves faster.

Hey man, not taking it personally don't worry. I'm just curious and like to keep things objective. When you say 50-80% dps higher for Fury, which builds and gear are you comparing?

Queegon wrote: 1 year ago

Blizzard wrote:

We want this Rune Word to really compete for best-in-slot for Shapeshifter Druids.

Is it competing enough to not just be a prebuff helmet though? I'll be assuming an

Eth

The Reaper's Toll as the BiS weapon here (I'll die on this hill).

1) To reach fastest FPA you need:

• With 40 IAS (incl. Bear Mark) lvl 38
  Werewolf. (Gloves+Amulet)
• With 55 IAS and Bear Mark lvl 21
  Werewolf. Saves 17 skill points. (Gloves+Amulet+IAS Jewel in helmet)

2) Cannot be frozen on Metamorphosis is mostly redundant as you cannot really afford cycling out

Raven Frost:

• Raven Frost allows you to wield reaper without any points put into dex.
• Ignore target's defense doesn't apply to Uniques/Bosses. That 20DEX + 250AR gives you so much attack rating, multiplied by both
  Heart of Wolverine and Fury, that it translates to 15-20% additional hit chance on those enemies.

3) You need a

Cham instead of a ~

Pul and lvl 67 instead of lvl 42 to use it

4) With Metamorphosis you lose out on:

• 30% FHR
• 20-35 all resistances (assuming 15IAS + up to 15@ jewel)
• 5 mana per kill
• Even more attack rating

5) What do you get with the runeword?

• 25% Crushing Blow
• Whatever skills you can find on the base for Metamorphosis +1 extra to shapeshift tree
• The ease of use. Not exchanging your helmets every 3 minutes.

Now I ask you. Would you use Metamorphosis over

Jalal's Mane? If so, would it be for any other reason than convenience on not wanting to swap headgear around?

Thank you for coming to my TEDtalk.

Where do you calc the ias of shapeshifting correctly? I like wolf a lot (and now seeing the discussion here maybe I'll try bear for the first time) and never found an up to date calc.

or.houster wrote: 7 months ago

Queegon wrote: 1 year ago

Blizzard wrote:

We want this Rune Word to really compete for best-in-slot for Shapeshifter Druids.

Is it competing enough to not just be a prebuff helmet though? I'll be assuming an

Eth

The Reaper's Toll as the BiS weapon here (I'll die on this hill).

1) To reach fastest FPA you need:

• With 40 IAS (incl. Bear Mark) lvl 38
  Werewolf. (Gloves+Amulet)
• With 55 IAS and Bear Mark lvl 21
  Werewolf. Saves 17 skill points. (Gloves+Amulet+IAS Jewel in helmet)

2) Cannot be frozen on Metamorphosis is mostly redundant as you cannot really afford cycling out

Raven Frost:

• Raven Frost allows you to wield reaper without any points put into dex.
• Ignore target's defense doesn't apply to Uniques/Bosses. That 20DEX + 250AR gives you so much attack rating, multiplied by both
  Heart of Wolverine and Fury, that it translates to 15-20% additional hit chance on those enemies.

3) You need a

Cham instead of a ~

Pul and lvl 67 instead of lvl 42 to use it

4) With Metamorphosis you lose out on:

• 30% FHR
• 20-35 all resistances (assuming 15IAS + up to 15@ jewel)
• 5 mana per kill
• Even more attack rating

5) What do you get with the runeword?

• 25% Crushing Blow
• Whatever skills you can find on the base for Metamorphosis +1 extra to shapeshift tree
• The ease of use. Not exchanging your helmets every 3 minutes.

Now I ask you. Would you use Metamorphosis over

Jalal's Mane? If so, would it be for any other reason than convenience on not wanting to swap headgear around?

Thank you for coming to my TEDtalk.

Where do you calc the ias of shapeshifting correctly? I like wolf a lot (and now seeing the discussion here maybe I'll try bear for the first time) and never found an up to date calc.

Hey man, try this calculator. It's great: https://warren1001.github.io/IAS_Calculator/

Meta is extremely strong and annoying. You need to take care of 2 three-minute buffs ontop of bo, Hustle or whatever else you chose.... but you can get Fury max fpa ebotd

Thunder Maul without any other IAS item with Hustle on switch - which is insane.
Not to mention +8 Fury,

Lycanthropy ,

Werewolf and +3 how resulting in +136ed, a ton of life and a lot of much needed ar.

I hate it.

I think the OP here has a major flaw that it seems to assume that Shapeshift = Fury.

Somone allready mentioned Bear+

Maul, but there is also options like

Fire Claws and

Rabies.

I'm using Metamorphosis on my Fireclaw druid and find it to be a huge damage-buff over Jalal's.
Also, Since

Fire Claws also has more AR built into the skill then Fury (and offcourse Infinity-merc) I have no problem with swapping

Raven Frost for a BK-ring and that way get the most out of Meta.

Goggen wrote: 7 months ago

I think the OP here has a major flaw that it seems to assume that Shapeshift = Fury.

Somone allready mentioned Bear+

Maul, but there is also options like

Fire Claws and

Rabies.

I'm using Metamorphosis on my Fireclaw druid and find it to be a huge damage-buff over Jalal's.
Also, Since

Fire Claws also has more AR built into the skill then Fury (and offcourse Infinity-merc) I have no problem with swapping

Raven Frost for a BK-ring and that way get the most out of Meta.

Rabies is very bad anyway, I played it with top gear and it sucks.
I can see how fire claw can benefit greatly from Metamorphosis, how did you like the gameplay? Smacking once each time sounds... horrible.
That's why when I play shapeshifter it's always Fury. Fury+geddon is a blast to play.