Any reason to use Infinity at P1 with a Sorc?

As title. To anyone who has a sorc class, do you find it helpful to pick Infinity over Insight at P1? Or do you find that a Hybrid build, at P1, can get clear speeds that are close enough to what the Pure Light Infinity provides that you find the QOL benefits of Insight too much to part with?

I have found that

Energy Shield + Insight makes my char very tough to kill, for example. Insight just plain rocks!

Also, as a pure light Infinity user, can you really kill 99+ % of enemies (inc. light immunes) fast? Even though it's a minor annoyance, conceptually I don't like that there are some enemies (cold/fire imms) that I HAVE to rely on my merc to kill directly.

I will probably always play P1 because I'm on bnet and I don't like the free-for-all loot system of MP, and my cold fire hybrid (mostly cold, fire backup) does clear most things quickly, with somewhat slower speeds for areas that include cold immunes.

And then there's Enigma... would it be better to just make that instead, and rock that + Insight on my Hybrid? All that movement speed and being able to put it on any armor you want (so you can pick your cosmetic favorite!) sounds like a lot of fun.

Also, to what degree does a Griffon's matter, especially at P1? I don't have one yet, though I imagine I may be able to get one someday, eventually.

I could be wrong, as I haven't gotten very far with my Light Sorc, but I don't think the hybrid builds will work well in Hell mode. Tried putting some points into Fire for the Light Immunes, but I do so little damage with fire, it feels like a waste, unless I pump a full 20+ points into it. I think full Light Sorc with Infinity is the best if you want to be able to kill most everything the quickest. Griffon isn't needed, but certainly helps lower resistance a bit if you're able to break it with

Conviction.

That being said, maybe I didn't spec the Hybrid build correctly. I didn't feel like going too far down that rabbit hole, but am also interested in other people's experiences here. Good questions!

I played

Frozen Orb +

Fire Wall Sorc for ages being able to clean all locations on Hell alone. But there were lots of places where had to rely on Merc. He is fast enough with

Eth Reapers Toll and

Shael inside +

Andariel's Visage.

Then I tried Lightning Sorc and realized that it is much faster. Farming became quicker. When I finally got Infinity farming became blazing fast. So more runs in the same 60 minutes time. More loot, more chances to get high runes etc. And very rare Uniques that still keep lightning resist against me. But Merc with Infinity is also more powerful and fast in killing them. But they are really very rare.

Snape75 wrote: 2 years ago

As title. To anyone who has a sorc class, do you find it helpful to pick Infinity over Insight at P1? Or do you find that a Hybrid build, at P1, can get clear speeds that are close enough to what the Pure Light Infinity provides that you find the QOL benefits of Insight too much to part with?

I have found that

Energy Shield + Insight makes my char very tough to kill, for example. Insight just plain rocks!

Also, as a pure light Infinity user, can you really kill 99+ % of enemies (inc. light immunes) fast? Even though it's a minor annoyance, conceptually I don't like that there are some enemies (cold/fire imms) that I HAVE to rely on my merc to kill directly.

I will probably always play P1 because I'm on bnet and I don't like the free-for-all loot system of MP, and my cold fire hybrid (mostly cold, fire backup) does clear most things quickly, with somewhat slower speeds for areas that include cold immunes.

And then there's Enigma... would it be better to just make that instead, and rock that + Insight on my Hybrid? All that movement speed and being able to put it on any armor you want (so you can pick your cosmetic favorite!) sounds like a lot of fun.

Also, to what degree does a Griffon's matter, especially at P1? I don't have one yet, though I imagine I may be able to get one someday, eventually.

Honestly I myself wondering if I really need Infinity for sorc, because Insight is SO nice to have, I never think about mana, such a huge quality of life thing.

Teleport as much as you want, use any spell, barely any problem even if you have mana burn enemies. I play

Frozen Orb + lightning. Cant say I enjoy killing cold immunes, it takes time and all, but just thinking about being OOM ever again is painful. In my opinion people are too obsessed with max speed, fastes kill, perfect bases, perfect and most expensive gear like the eye. Just slap Insight and

Tal Rasha full set and lets go. No need to be fancy just to finish your run in 1:30 instead of 2 minutes.

My Hybrid build sorc w/o Infinity couldn't do Chaos Run (about 5-6 min). For

Baal Run, it was doable.
With Infinity, she kills everything so fast that mana is not an issue. Or you can use

Silkweave to get mana after each kill.

zeleboba wrote: 2 years ago

I played

Frozen Orb +

Fire Wall Sorc for ages being able to clean all locations on Hell alone. But there were lots of places where had to rely on Merc. He is fast enough with

Eth Reapers Toll and

Shael inside +

Andariel's Visage.

Then I tried Lightning Sorc and realized that it is much faster. Farming became quicker. When I finally got Infinity farming became blazing fast. So more runs in the same 60 minutes time. More loot, more chances to get high runes etc. And very rare Uniques that still keep lightning resist against me. But Merc with Infinity is also more powerful and fast in killing them. But they are really very rare.

Encouraging to hear! Do you have Griffon's (think it's necessary?). What base did you use? Do you have to use a lot of mana potions?

And do burning souls give you any trouble? They would require you to get close so the convic aura can affect them, yet they also hit really hard, so I imagine they could be a pain.

As to the previous poster, hybrids can do well in Hell if you're high enough level and/or have decent gear. I'm currently running Blizzard/

Hydra, but mostly Blizzard with

Hydra as backup. Have just 20 points in

Hydra, 1 point in FM, and no synergies. But because of my gear, it's around 40th level or so. It works well enough as a backup for cold immunes, it's decent, but my main killers are still obviously Blizzard and Icy Blast, and they are almost completely synergized, tho I only have 9 hard points in

Ice Bolt, which I'm adding to on each level up.

mockingbirdreal wrote: 2 years ago

My Hybrid build sorc w/o Infinity couldn't do Chaos Run (about 5-6 min). For

Baal Run, it was doable.
With Infinity, she kills everything so fast that mana is not an issue. Or you can use

Silkweave to get mana after each kill.

Awesome tip on the

Silkweave, had no idea.

Were able to get these great kill speeds without a Griffon's? Or is that necessary?

Snape75 wrote: 2 years ago

Awesome tip on the

Silkweave, had no idea.

Were able to get these great kill speeds without a Griffon's? Or is that necessary?

Griffon's Eye can help much but not mandatory.
With 25 FCR from Griffon, you can hit easily 200 FCR.

My sorc is Hybrid build. Max only Lightning,

Chain Lightning and

Lightning Mastery.

W/o Griffon, I had to use Lightning because CLightning was not strong enough.
And CLightning consume more mana => mana issue.

With Griffon, I can use CLightning now => don't have to aim as with Lightning.

IMO If you can afford Griffon just get it

Snape75 wrote: 2 years ago

Encouraging to hear! Do you have Griffon's (think it's necessary?). What base did you use? Do you have to use a lot of mana potions?

And do burning souls give you any trouble? They would require you to get close so the convic aura can affect them, yet they also hit really hard, so I imagine they could be a pain.

As to the previous poster, hybrids can do well in Hell if you're high enough level and/or have decent gear. I'm currently running Blizzard/

Hydra, but mostly Blizzard with

Hydra as backup. Have just 20 points in

Hydra, 1 point in FM, and no synergies. But because of my gear, it's around 40th level or so. It works well enough as a backup for cold immunes, it's decent, but my main killers are still obviously Blizzard and Icy Blast, and they are almost completely synergized, tho I only have 9 hard points in

Ice Bolt, which I'm adding to on each level up.

Tried playing without Infinity after that. Not than fun anymore

I didn't find Griffon yet, but hope to do this in future. It's fun for me to get it myself, not to buy. Although I used trade to get runes and

Eth

Thresher for Infinity Decided to use the good base because the runeword is extremly expensive for me, and it took months to get it.

Souls are not big trouble now in terms of killing them. But they hurt when targeting me together. So I still try being careful with them.

I'm not suffering of mana insufficiency because managed to get 1st SOJ fast enough in

Travincal. This week managed to get 2nd one in

Halls of Pain. With only one I sometimes heard "Not enough mana". Now it's really rare although lightning sorc is mana hungry in my opinion.

Here are the videos for you.

Chaos Sanctuary with Infinity ((not the fastest, nor the the slowest))


Souls with Infinity


Solo Baalrun


The equip


Still I put 11 points in

Warmth.

Here are the skills. 1, 2. Cold page is empty.

Sometimes the

Conviction delay can be a bit irritating. But when the aura affects monsters, just 1 lightning is enough for them to die. I use

Chain Lightning. Lightning only for big bosses.

Wow, thanks for the videos! Looks awesome. I'm especially impressed how fast you can clear, even without using Crescent Moon, Griffon's, and 7+ light skillers. It seems that would be overkill!

My only concern is that my health and mana pools are way smaller than yours (800-something mana after using CtA). I think I need a better one, it's like 4/1/1.

Thank you for sharing, I may go for the Infinity after all. Plan on using a Great Pole

Axe for subjective reasons. Great stuff.

Edit: I don't have Enigma yet either, so my decision was which to pursue first, Infinity or Enigma.

Snape75 wrote: 2 years ago

Wow, thanks for the videos! Looks awesome. I'm especially impressed how fast you can clear, even without using Crescent Moon, Griffon's, and 7+ light skillers. It seems that would be overkill!

My only concern is that my health and mana pools are way smaller than yours (800-something mana after using CtA). I think I need a better one, it's like 4/1/1.

Thank you for sharing, I may go for the Infinity after all. Plan on using a Great Pole

Axe for subjective reasons. Great stuff.

Edit: I don't have Enigma yet either, so my decision was which to pursue first, Infinity or Enigma.

Enigma is good. I dreamed of it back in 2000-s. This is my first one in life )) It made the game a bit more comfortable. Before Enigma I played with

Arkaine's Valor Barlog Skin + Lightning Rainbow Facet inside. That was super Ok also.

But the two items that really change the game for me twice are Call To Arms and Infinity.

Also played with 800+ and 800- mana. It still can be played with pleasure. And gives you treatment and another goals to maximize mana. I liked it. Because when you get Enigma and Infinity, you begin to think what to get further and why continue playing. So challenges in game are good for me.

Now searching for Griffon + skillers + better charms + Annihulus and Torch. Mine are quite low.

Clone Diablo also dies fast. Less than 10 seconds.

1) Sorc wields an Infinity herself;
2) Merc wields

Eth elite Insight 17med+andy+forti;
3) 2x SoJ's, Arach, Mara/fcr craft amu;
4) Decent Viper or CoH is your armor (you want resists);
5) Griffon - you want its 25%fcr badly;
6) Magefists +

Boots of your choice;
7) Well, torch+anni+sparkGC's+res/life sc's.

My sorc is 94lvl, she sweeps everything despite havin only 65%fcr total. For pvm - it is enough. 20charged

Bolts, 20lightning, 20chain, 20mastery, 20telekinesis, 1warmth, 1es, 1tele, 1static, 1nova.

Asha wrote: 2 years ago

1) Sorc wields an Infinity herself;
2) Merc wields

Eth elite Insight 17med+andy+forti;
3) 2x SoJ's, Arach, Mara/fcr craft amu;
4) Decent Viper or CoH is your armor (you want resists);
5) Griffon - you want its 25%fcr badly;
6) Magefists +

Boots of your choice;
7) Well, torch+anni+sparkGC's+res/life sc's.

My sorc is 94lvl, she sweeps everything despite havin only 65%fcr total. For pvm - it is enough. 20charged

Bolts, 20lightning, 20chain, 20mastery, 20telekinesis, 1warmth, 1es, 1tele, 1static, 1nova.

Awesome. I don't have a Griffon's, but I do have a rare carona that gives +2 skills, 13 all resist, and 20 fcr. I never would have thought about using both Insight and Infinity. I'm guessing this would mean the Infinity's (-light res) would actually work for your skills, ON TOP OF the bonus granted by

Conviction.

zeleboba wrote: 2 years ago

Snape75 wrote: 2 years ago

Wow, thanks for the videos! Looks awesome. I'm especially impressed how fast you can clear, even without using Crescent Moon, Griffon's, and 7+ light skillers. It seems that would be overkill!

My only concern is that my health and mana pools are way smaller than yours (800-something mana after using CtA). I think I need a better one, it's like 4/1/1.

Thank you for sharing, I may go for the Infinity after all. Plan on using a Great Pole

Axe for subjective reasons. Great stuff.

Edit: I don't have Enigma yet either, so my decision was which to pursue first, Infinity or Enigma.

Enigma is good. I dreamed of it back in 2000-s. This is my first one in life )) It made the game a bit more comfortable. Before Enigma I played with

Arkaine's Valor Barlog Skin + Lightning Rainbow Facet inside. That was super Ok also.

But the two items that really change the game for me twice are Call To Arms and Infinity.

Also played with 800+ and 800- mana. It still can be played with pleasure. And gives you treatment and another goals to maximize mana. I liked it. Because when you get Enigma and Infinity, you begin to think what to get further and why continue playing. So challenges in game are good for me.

Now searching for Griffon + skillers + better charms + Annihulus and Torch. Mine are quite low.

Clone Diablo also dies fast. Less than 10 seconds.

Thanks for confirming 800 will still work. If you don't mind my asking, where are your large bonuses to health and mana coming from? Is it mainly from the

Shako and a high rolled CtA? I ask because, aside from the

Shako, I don't see any big health/mana bonuses from your gear (unless they're coming from your charms).

Snape75 wrote: 2 years ago

Thanks for confirming 800 will still work. If you don't mind my asking, where are your large bonuses to health and mana coming from? Is it mainly from the

Shako and a high rolled CtA? I ask because, aside from the

Shako, I don't see any big health/mana bonuses from your gear (unless they're coming from your charms).

Shako, Charms, CTA is 6/2/3.
Also lots of Vitality points - 458 base/512 with equip.
Strength - 52/156.
Dexterity - 25/57.
Energy - 35/67.

Here's my approach on light sorcs. These of course are all just my opinions.

Getting it out of the way, only 117 FCR breakpoint makes sense to me, the next one up at 194% light / 200% tele isn't worth it.
Also, the first -50% light res is the most impactful. For example, cows that have 50% light res is brought down to -35% by Infinity. This means you go from 50% of sheet dps going through up to 135% of sheet dps going through. (1.35 - 0.5) / 0.5 = 170% increase. So if all you have is a Cmoon, it can be really good.

I hate using mana pots. I also hate using health pots. And in my opinion, there's 3 methods of eliminating potting, in order of gear progression: Insight -> energy / ES -> Phoenix

With starter gear. i.e. just uniques and maybe rare jewelry, you can run cmoon and still hit 117 FCR pretty easily. This is with Insight on merc of course.

Infinity is the next upgrade and if you get griff along the way, great. Once you have Infinity, you can change to an ES build and basically drop the

Nova synergy (with 1 base point, not maxed) and have 16+ TK. If you have around 2k mana or slightly less with BO, you won't really oom. You can also use a

Prayer merc with ES and it'll pretty much keep your health topped off.

Then once you have griff (for the FCR) and hoto / eschutas, you can use COH and Phoenix. Also swapping back to a vita build and taking up the

Nova synergy again. Technically if you use cmoon / vmagi, I think it's still higher dps than eschuta / hoto / coh.

So in my opinion, get Infinity. You kill faster and you'll never have to pot (except maybe antidotes).

Conmetta wrote: 2 years ago

Here's my approach on light sorcs. These of course are all just my opinions.

Getting it out of the way, only 117 FCR breakpoint makes sense to me, the next one up at 194% light / 200% tele isn't worth it.
Also, the first -50% light res is the most impactful. For example, cows that have 50% light res is brought down to -35% by Infinity. This means you go from 50% of sheet dps going through up to 135% of sheet dps going through. (1.35 - 0.5) / 0.5 = 170% increase. So if all you have is a Cmoon, it can be really good.

I hate using mana pots. I also hate using health pots. And in my opinion, there's 3 methods of eliminating potting, in order of gear progression: Insight -> energy / ES -> Phoenix

With starter gear. i.e. just uniques and maybe rare jewelry, you can run cmoon and still hit 117 FCR pretty easily. This is with Insight on merc of course.

Infinity is the next upgrade and if you get griff along the way, great. Once you have Infinity, you can change to an ES build and basically drop the

Nova synergy (with 1 base point, not maxed) and have 16+ TK. If you have around 2k mana or slightly less with BO, you won't really oom. You can also use a

Prayer merc with ES and it'll pretty much keep your health topped off.

Then once you have griff (for the FCR) and hoto / eschutas, you can use COH and Phoenix. Also swapping back to a vita build and taking up the

Nova synergy again. Technically if you use cmoon / vmagi, I think it's still higher dps than eschuta / hoto / coh.

So in my opinion, get Infinity. You kill faster and you'll never have to pot (except maybe antidotes).

This is really helpful, thanks. I'm using your post as a guide. I don't have griffons or Phoenix. My planned setup with the gear I do have is:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

cmoon
skin of viper magi (34 all res)
Spirit

Monarch (35 fcr)
rare

Coronet (2 sorc skills, 20 fcr, 13 all res)
mara's (28 all res)

Magefist

Arachnid Mesh
war trav (39 MF)
soj
soj
Gheeds
6x Light Skillers

Hellfire Torch (12/20)
Anni (14/18)
Various sc with +res, +fhr, +mf

Off Hand

CtA (only 4/1/1; that's 11 effective BO when all is said and done)
Spirit

Monarch

Merc Gear
Infinity (

Eth GPA)

Eth Hellforge Treachery

Tal Rashas' Crest, OR Andy's at 8 % ll socketed with

Ral (gets him over the IAS breakpoint for GPA)

at lvl 93 for build I've done:

1

Frozen Armor
1

Warmth
1 tele
1 ES
1

Static Field
1

Nova
max light
max c.light
max c.bolt
max l.mastery
18 hp into telekineses

So in summary I have:

DEFENSE

524 Life, 2943 Mana (both after CtA) With 77 % absorb ES with mana consumed per damage at 88 %
60 % FHR
All Res 75

OFFENSE

Light dmg is 6-25.5k
C.Light dmg is 6-9.9k
125 % FCR
-35 % light res (assuming no rainbow facets; can get to -43 % light res if use both my light facets, if necessary. But then my MF will be around 100 %... if I can get by without the facets, I can get MF to about 150 %...which I feel is still pathetic coming from my hybrid 300+ MF build! Although the ACTUAL difference in unique find is about 1.22, so I only find about 22 % more uniques at 300 MF compared to 150 MF; so not the end of the world).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you think either my defense/survivability is too low or that my damage will be too low? I appreciate your experience and input, I only have a few tokens of absolution so don't want to have to use too many if I don't have to!

Either way, thanks for your helpful input and Insight!

I've decided to go for the Insight. Got my base and runes. I'm just waiting on my last Light skiller, then will give this a shot.

I do not think that your damage or survivability will be an issue.

If you're going for a MF build with Infinity on merc, you can run 3 pc tals with occy and it won't feel like too much of a dps loss in P1, except on finger ghosts until you get a griff. They'll still be at 93% res with just infi, but your merc should be able to kill them quickly.

Here's what I run in my MF setup with the same skill pts you have. It's pretty cookie cutter, but gets 120 FCR and something like 400 MF.
Griff

Tal ammy, chest,

Belt

Ist occy
Spirit Mon
Chancies
Travs
SOJ
FCR + All res ring

I like chancies because of the gold find. Without griffs, you might have to run trang gloves / magefists to make your FCR breakpoint. And instead of the FCR ring, you can swap for a MF ring or the second SOJ.

Here's my opinion on hybrids, just because I want to get it out there.

Cold and Light sorcs can and should be played as pure specs, regardless of what gear you have. Cold and light immunes, respectively, aren't an issue.

Fire is the only spec that needs to be played as a hybrid to be viable. And in my opinion, there are 2 endgame fire specs:
1.

Meteor with dual Dream, maxing

Meteor synergies and

Lightning Mastery. This is not the

Zeal spec and does not take Passion for

Zeal. It takes Cmoon + Insight or Phoenix PB + Infinity. 63 FCR breakpoint only, but max IAS for PB. Melee is reserved only for fire immunes.
2.

Enchant + orb with

Demon Machine. This is similar to FB / orb, except the explosive

Arrows

Demon Machine fires are like FBs that

Pierce with a larger radius explosion on each target.

Awesome, ty so much for giving a blueprint for a MF alternative using Light Infinity!