Why 2.4 changes to the meta do not go far enough for me

Snape75 wrote: 2 years ago

Again, Bearsorc? Or am I misunderstanding that one?

It's such an odd choice, because the Bearsorc isn't even close to top tier. It's good for running Ubers with very expensive gear, while a Paladin can clear Ubers with much cheaper options. So, why on earth nerf it? It was a cool (expensive/ambitious) goal for Sorc players to aspire to.

A bearsorc is the equivalent of a Jacht parked in Monaco. It's expensive and there are many better ways to get around, but if you've got the money and you like the look and feel, why not get one?

Also, and I can only speak for myself obviously, but my personal enjoyment with this game shot up when I respecc'ed my sorc from pure element to hybrid (cold/fire), and then started farming areas that I had avoided previously (due to CI).

Sure, farming these areas is much 'slower' than farming areas without CI where I can just spam Blizzard, but I have found the game to be significantly more engaging and fun. I went from hating immunes to being glad they exist because juggling 2+ different types of elemental attacks, and having to pay attention to the different enemy types, is just more fun (for me).

But I also understand that not everyone wants to play that way. So, for people who want a one-button-does-it-all build, then there's the Hammerdin. (no judgement).

As an aside, what are these "top 3 builds" anyway?

Katonda wrote: 2 years ago

Snape75 wrote: 2 years ago

Again, Bearsorc? Or am I misunderstanding that one?

It's such an odd choice, because the Bearsorc isn't even close to top tier. It's good for running Ubers with very expensive gear, while a Paladin can clear Ubers with much cheaper options. So, why on earth nerf it? It was a cool (expensive/ambitious) goal for Sorc players to aspire to.

A bearsorc is the equivalent of a Jacht parked in Monaco. It's expensive and there are many better ways to get around, but if you've got the money and you like the look and feel, why not get one?

Except that now the Jacht doesn't actually work and you can't use it to go anywhere. (At least, that is my understanding of what 2.4 is going to do to Bearsorcs - they no longer will be able to solo Ubers. Maybe I'm misunderstanding/overestimating how badly they're being nerfed).

Snape75 wrote: 2 years ago

Again, Bearsorc? Or am I misunderstanding that one?

It's such an odd choice, because the Bearsorc isn't even close to top tier. It's good for running Ubers with very expensive gear, while a Paladin can clear Ubers with much cheaper options. So, why on earth nerf it? It was a cool (expensive/ambitious) goal for Sorc players to aspire to.

Sorry, I was ignoring you. Now, to correct that rudeness, they might have nerfed bearsorc, but honestly, I haven't been tracking it that close. You are right, if they did nerf it, WHY? It wasn't like it was top tier. I've never seen/heard anything like, "Top D2 builds: Hammerdin, Lit Sorc, BearSorc. Boom!" or something less 90s in veribage. Now, did they change the baseline, or just dial back some of the adds after a PTR round? They did that with

Holy Fire. The devs saw that in the first round of PTR and dialed it back. Given how FoHdin...performed...I wouldn't be surprised if the next time we see 2.4 patch notes, there are dial backs of FoH.

I'll admit, when I say "no nerfs", I might be a little sloppy. When I say no nerfs, I mean they haven't touched the top builds or the top gear, at least as far as I am tracking. Far more adds to bring things up, not a lot to bring things down. Maybe they saw BearSorc and thought BerSorc, and "oh, it's a

Ber powered sorc. Must be too powerful". Nerf it!

Leaker416 wrote: 2 years ago

Snape75 wrote: 2 years ago

Again, Bearsorc? Or am I misunderstanding that one?

It's such an odd choice, because the Bearsorc isn't even close to top tier. It's good for running Ubers with very expensive gear, while a Paladin can clear Ubers with much cheaper options. So, why on earth nerf it? It was a cool (expensive/ambitious) goal for Sorc players to aspire to.

Sorry, I was ignoring you. Now, to correct that rudeness, they might have nerfed bearsorc, but honestly, I haven't been tracking it that close. You are right, if they did nerf it, WHY? It wasn't like it was top tier. I've never seen/heard anything like, "Top D2 builds: Hammerdin, Lit Sorc, BearSorc. Boom!" or something less 90s in veribage. Now, did they change the baseline, or just dial back some of the adds after a PTR round? They did that with

Holy Fire. The devs saw that in the first round of PTR and dialed it back. Given how FoHdin...performed...I wouldn't be surprised if the next time we see 2.4 patch notes, there are dial backs of FoH.

I'll admit, when I say "no nerfs", I might be a little sloppy. When I say no nerfs, I mean they haven't touched the top builds or the top gear, at least as far as I am tracking. Far more adds to bring things up, not a lot to bring things down. Maybe they saw BearSorc and thought BerSorc, and "oh, it's a

Ber powered sorc. Must be too powerful". Nerf it!

Not rude at all! I was just starting to question whether or not I had my own facts straight regarding the Bearsorc nerf (I've been wrong plenty of times). I do agree with your sentiment that, on the whole, they don't seem to be nefring anything, and also, they aren't changing the meta much - which is might be for the best (even if it's not what I personally want). And I mean best in the sense of making the most people happy.

I think it's pretty clear that the Bearsorc is just a victim of circumstance, namly changes to the shapeshifting attack speed calculation formula.

So if that's a nerf it's an unintentional one and besides I don't see builds like that as part of the meta. It's just weird quirky stuff you can do which works better than you would expect. There will always be some of that, ideally the itemisation and skill game would be complex enough so it only gets discovered over time.

As for intentional nerfs: People would get over it as they did in the past. This may not be Starcraft 2 where they have several balance patches a year and balancing works different for a game with cross session persistence.

But there certainly is some competitive aspect to ladder and I'd argue that a scenario where every class has at least one competitive ladder build would make sense.

Yes we never had that but I can't see why would couldn't.

For this season it's pretty clear though that everybody will at least have one sorc and one pala even if they have a different main.