Could this work? Plague savage
Is this a viable build (not for Ubers tho) on players 1?
https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/04c80coq
Any suggestions how to improve it?
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Is this a viable build (not for Ubers tho) on players 1?
https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/04c80coq
Any suggestions how to improve it?
https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/04c80coq
Any suggestions how to improve it?
Can be used to make Runewords:
Answered•Go to post
I get the thinking behind it but poison is far more finicky in D2 than one may think. Between the duration calculations, "hard-stop duration skills", frame blocking and all that jazz, you often end up with rather different numbers than you might initially think. Those mechanics are also the reason why your poison nova procs would not be "a neat bonus" on your actual target(s) but actually a bad thing because they reduce your damage, rather than adding to it.
Lower res would buff the damage, yes. Conviction would not though as it doesn't affect poison res.
Poison builds certainly do work but to optimize their (poison) performance, you end up with a rather unique and "odd" playstyle of "hit target once and only once, then pick a new target even if target still lives". Needless to say that with enough mobs in a pack, reliably switching from one to the next while only moving on to unpoisoned ones and not losing any time to do so becomes a bit of a challenge/annoyance to say the least. Even more so if you have poison nova procs turn all of them green so you can't even tell which is which anymore.
The idea would basically be to stack enough poison damage to have it kill any target mob in one full duration and then only hit once to apply it before waiting for your poison to then kill the target, doing the same with the other targets in the meantime. Any subsequent hit on the same target merely blocks yourself and then reapplies the same poison you already had (not stacking both), meaning your entire poison damage becomes effectively completely wasted after the first hit.
Even doing so perfectly though and optimizing the use of your poison damage still means mobs won't die until your poison had enough time to kill them at which point they'll then start "chaining deaths" based on how quickly you moved on. During that same time, other (proper) builds would've long annihilated the entire pack and the next ones as well.
Lower res would buff the damage, yes. Conviction would not though as it doesn't affect poison res.
Poison builds certainly do work but to optimize their (poison) performance, you end up with a rather unique and "odd" playstyle of "hit target once and only once, then pick a new target even if target still lives". Needless to say that with enough mobs in a pack, reliably switching from one to the next while only moving on to unpoisoned ones and not losing any time to do so becomes a bit of a challenge/annoyance to say the least. Even more so if you have poison nova procs turn all of them green so you can't even tell which is which anymore.
The idea would basically be to stack enough poison damage to have it kill any target mob in one full duration and then only hit once to apply it before waiting for your poison to then kill the target, doing the same with the other targets in the meantime. Any subsequent hit on the same target merely blocks yourself and then reapplies the same poison you already had (not stacking both), meaning your entire poison damage becomes effectively completely wasted after the first hit.
Even doing so perfectly though and optimizing the use of your poison damage still means mobs won't die until your poison had enough time to kill them at which point they'll then start "chaining deaths" based on how quickly you moved on. During that same time, other (proper) builds would've long annihilated the entire pack and the next ones as well.
Someone much smarter than me already said once: "The real value of something doesn't reflect in a number of how much a seller is asking for it, but on how much a buyer is willing to pay for it."
You dont need BattleCommand that high, one point is enough.
I would remove points from Battle Command and Bash and go on Frenzy with Taunt as synergy.
I would remove points from Battle Command and Bash and go on Frenzy with Taunt as synergy.
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Yeah, since I wasn't going for Frenzy I said why not have less off-set between BC and BO duration (for me it's annoying when I have to cast them at different frequencies).ToX-I-qUc wrote: 4 months ago You dont need BattleCommand that high, one point is enough.
I would remove points from Battle Command and Bash and go on Frenzy with Taunt as synergy.
It's not that big of a change with Frenzy and w/o, about 2k DPS since, well, you are not really doing much physical dmg anyway (you gain only 1 frame I think). Thanks anyway!
Someone much smarter than me already said once: "The real value of something doesn't reflect in a number of how much a seller is asking for it, but on how much a buyer is willing to pay for it."
The thing about poison damage is that despite the dmg number being stacked as high as it is in your theorycrafting there, it is still spread out over the full duration. So your actual DPS from poison will still be lackluster at best, even on non-resistant mobs. To make it worse, since you're using Plague (double Plague at that) and due to the intricacies of poison damage mechanics, every time you proc a Poison Nova, it costs you a frame of your normal poison damage before reverting back to it and replaces it with an extremely low dmg low-lvl unsynergized Poison Nova frame (that's in addition to the inherent general poison frame lock that just further drops your poison dmg).
Going Frenzy instead of the Double Swing setup should net you right around 5k more dps when stacked (13.8 -> 18.5, using your maxroll and changing nothing other than getting Frenzy skilled and synergized).
Your poison damage, despite going all out on it, will be a fairly sad fraction of that as you're splitting the seemingly massive total dmg of it over 12 seconds, leaving you with somewhere around 1,800 dps from poison (so about 10% with Frenzy). Actually a good bit less than that even, thanks to the poison frame-locking.
You're basically sacrificing just about everything in order to max out on poison damage that even in that approach accounts for a measly <10% of your drastically reduced (because you're not focusing on any actual non-poison damage) overall dps.
(That's looking at target dummy values with LR applied)
Mind you, when you're looking at random P1 stuff, it'll still be more than sufficient to clear whatever you want and if you enjoy the "poison style", go for it. Certainly not saying it won't get you through the game. But in terms of actual performance compared to "real" builds, this will fall behind massively.
E.g. going for dual Grief Frenzy alone, without any other changes, will already more than double the dps by comparison.
Thanks Schnorki!
Yeah that's why I'm asking, because I already founded some of the theoretical poison builds I made a bit finicky, clunky and odd to play with (when I started playing with them). They involve a lot of waiting most of the time... About dps I literally changed BC and Bash to Frenzy and Taunt and it said like 13k instead of 11k. I might have put something wrong, dunno...
I do all the testings on Baal and not on test dummy tho (I'm like if I can kill Hell Baal within reasonable time then it's viable).
Yeah, in reality, probably something like Grief + Plague would be more effective with more oomf from physical, I just thought it could maybe work with a lot of pdmg charms and Poison Nova procs and LR+ Conviction. For this build raw idea was to max utilize pdmg SCs and have decent -poisonres although I don't know if poison dmg gets buff like for example in ticks (bigger tick chunks?) if affected on low poison res characters/monsters or have +dmg bonus like for other elementals? Poison Nova procs were just a neat bonus.
I played with most of the meta builds and they are not fun for me... Trying out something completely different and making it viable for full game completion is what I really enjoy these days. I did some off-meta builds already but it's always fun to "cook something else" if you know what I mean.
All that being said, non-skill poison builds are a total mess then, even more that I thought eh? Damn. Shame...
Yeah that's why I'm asking, because I already founded some of the theoretical poison builds I made a bit finicky, clunky and odd to play with (when I started playing with them). They involve a lot of waiting most of the time... About dps I literally changed BC and Bash to Frenzy and Taunt and it said like 13k instead of 11k. I might have put something wrong, dunno...
I do all the testings on Baal and not on test dummy tho (I'm like if I can kill Hell Baal within reasonable time then it's viable).
Yeah, in reality, probably something like Grief + Plague would be more effective with more oomf from physical, I just thought it could maybe work with a lot of pdmg charms and Poison Nova procs and LR+ Conviction. For this build raw idea was to max utilize pdmg SCs and have decent -poisonres although I don't know if poison dmg gets buff like for example in ticks (bigger tick chunks?) if affected on low poison res characters/monsters or have +dmg bonus like for other elementals? Poison Nova procs were just a neat bonus.
I played with most of the meta builds and they are not fun for me... Trying out something completely different and making it viable for full game completion is what I really enjoy these days. I did some off-meta builds already but it's always fun to "cook something else" if you know what I mean.
All that being said, non-skill poison builds are a total mess then, even more that I thought eh? Damn. Shame...
Someone much smarter than me already said once: "The real value of something doesn't reflect in a number of how much a seller is asking for it, but on how much a buyer is willing to pay for it."
I get the thinking behind it but poison is far more finicky in D2 than one may think. Between the duration calculations, "hard-stop duration skills", frame blocking and all that jazz, you often end up with rather different numbers than you might initially think. Those mechanics are also the reason why your Poison Nova procs would not be "a neat bonus" on your actual target(s) but actually a bad thing because they reduce your damage, rather than adding to it.
Lower res would buff the damage, yes. Conviction would not though as it doesn't affect poison res.
Poison builds certainly do work but to optimize their (poison) performance, you end up with a rather unique and "odd" playstyle of "hit target once and only once, then pick a new target even if target still lives". Needless to say that with enough mobs in a pack, reliably switching from one to the next while only moving on to unpoisoned ones and not losing any time to do so becomes a bit of a challenge/annoyance to say the least. Even more so if you have Poison Nova procs turn all of them green so you can't even tell which is which anymore.
The idea would basically be to stack enough poison damage to have it kill any target mob in one full duration and then only hit once to apply it before waiting for your poison to then kill the target, doing the same with the other targets in the meantime. Any subsequent hit on the same target merely blocks yourself and then reapplies the same poison you already had (not stacking both), meaning your entire poison damage becomes effectively completely wasted after the first hit.
Even doing so perfectly though and optimizing the use of your poison damage still means mobs won't die until your poison had enough time to kill them at which point they'll then start "chaining deaths" based on how quickly you moved on. During that same time, other (proper) builds would've long annihilated the entire pack and the next ones as well.
This post was marked as the best answer.Lower res would buff the damage, yes. Conviction would not though as it doesn't affect poison res.
Poison builds certainly do work but to optimize their (poison) performance, you end up with a rather unique and "odd" playstyle of "hit target once and only once, then pick a new target even if target still lives". Needless to say that with enough mobs in a pack, reliably switching from one to the next while only moving on to unpoisoned ones and not losing any time to do so becomes a bit of a challenge/annoyance to say the least. Even more so if you have Poison Nova procs turn all of them green so you can't even tell which is which anymore.
The idea would basically be to stack enough poison damage to have it kill any target mob in one full duration and then only hit once to apply it before waiting for your poison to then kill the target, doing the same with the other targets in the meantime. Any subsequent hit on the same target merely blocks yourself and then reapplies the same poison you already had (not stacking both), meaning your entire poison damage becomes effectively completely wasted after the first hit.
Even doing so perfectly though and optimizing the use of your poison damage still means mobs won't die until your poison had enough time to kill them at which point they'll then start "chaining deaths" based on how quickly you moved on. During that same time, other (proper) builds would've long annihilated the entire pack and the next ones as well.
TL;DR, poison damage isn't very good compared to other damage types in this game. I was always wondering why my 1-2k poison damage from SCs on my Zon basically seemed to do nothing. Thanks for the explanation, Schnorki. I also applaud your efforts, OP, of trying something new and different.
And another problem is having that insignificant damage even if you have that many 451s, which just costs around 30 Jah per.
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