With "3-Piece Tal Rasha's Set", can "complete set" be better than Griffon + Oculus?

Hi

I have a Lightning Sorceress currently with

*

Tal Rasha's Adjudication
*

Tal Rasha's Fine-Spun Cloth
*

Tal Rasha's Guardianship
* Crescent Moon
*

Harlequin Crest (with 15@ jewel)

(Merc with Infinity)

https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/a8gg0kj1

I was thinking in upgrade to:

Griffon's Eye (still don't have) +

The Oculus (already have)

Which will, more or less, replace:

* +2 to skills
* -35 to enemy lr
* 15@
* 10 dr
* 50 mf

For:

* +4 to skills
* -15 to -20 to enemy lr
* 20@
* 0 dr
* 50 mf
* 10% to 15% lightning dmg
* 5% fhr (will reach 60% bp - will be able to replace a resist charm for a fhr charm)
* 55% fcr (will reach 105/78 bp)
* a little less life/mana

https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/wwmd0oda

But I remembered that

Tal Rasha's Lidless Eye can give you -15 to enemy lr too.
So I started to do some calculations, and it seems like the "Tal Rasha's Wrappings complete set" will be a better upgrade:
(and I already have

Tal Rasha's Horadric Crest and

Tal Rasha's Lidless Eye)

* +4 to skills (1 from weapon, 3 from complete set)
* -15 to enemy lr (from weapon)
* 65@ (15 from head, 50 from complete set)
* 0 dr
* 0 mf (but my total mf will still be 120% effective for uniques vs 133% with current build)
* 24% lightning dmg (+2 to

Lightning Mastery - from weapon)
* 25% fhr (will reach 60% bp - from complete set)
* 30 fcr (will reach 63/78 bp - 20 from weapon, 10 from amulet)
* a little more life/mana

And the extra resistance will enable me to:
* Replace "resist gloves" for

Magefist (will reach 105% fcr bp)
* Free a lot of charm space, enough for 2 fhr small charms (will reach 86% bp), and two more skillers (which I don't have yet but can buy/drop)
(instead of the skillers I could add some MF charms and/or

War Traveler + few resist charms, to up MF to the previous number)

And I will not have to worry about

The Oculus "random

Teleport" (never actually use it, but read that can be annoying sometimes...)

And, of course, I will glow

https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/gsgf0kzv

Do my thoughts / calculations make sense or am I missing something?

I thought on above for long time, actually would recommend full

Tal Rasha's set unless you can get

Griffon's Eye, Chains of Honor and Phoenix shield all together. Still running 120FCR, max res with

Boots. You are giving up MF and fhr but Phoenix shield is another level of comfort. Would recommend Heart of the Oak over

The Oculus.

DCain wrote: 4 months ago

I thought on above for long time, actually would recommend full

Tal Rasha's set unless you can get

Griffon's Eye, Chains of Honor and Phoenix shield all together. Still running 120FCR, max res with

Boots. You are giving up MF and fhr but Phoenix shield is another level of comfort. Would recommend Heart of the Oak over

The Oculus.

Heart of the Oak was a "2nd step" on my original ideia (my Oak is with my Necro )

Isn't Phoenix only for Fire or "Attack" builds?

Phoenix gives you

Redemption which is another layer of safety regardless of build, but it is much better on fire based builds. As for which is better, it depends what your goal is. If you prefer a bit of safety and the MF then you will be better served with

Tal Rasha's set. If you are looking just to kill things as fast as you can, then the Griffons Eye build tends to be better.

1 - Can

Redemption be as good as "Life steal" is on an Attack build or it is slow/inconsistent and works more like a "free healing" between fights?
(never used it...)

2 - On calculations, The Griffons Eye setup starts to do more damage than the

Tal Rasha's setup when monster Lightning Resistance is close to 50% but not that much.
But the calculations were considering a perfect Griffons Eye...
With a bad Griffons Eye this "Lightning Resistance break point" will be higher.
And with a min Griffons Eye,

Tal Rasha's setup with be better (same -15% to Enemy Lightning Resistance and more % Lightning Damage)
(considering my setup on the other equipment)

3 - Tried the

Tal Rasha's setup a little on

Chaos Sanctuary and seems better than my original setup (the feeling is that I cleared faster), and perceive no difference against lightning imunes (even my -X% to Enemy Lightning Resistance vs immunes, being reduced from -52% - Crescent Moon + Infinity - to -32% -

Tal Rasha's Lidless Eye + Infinity)

Another point that I noticed...

Tal Rasha's setup cannot reach the 117% fcr without giving up both

Stone of Jordan
(According to the calculations this change do not worth - from the Damage point of view at least...)

But The Griffons Eye setup can reach 117% with just more 10% fcr (that may came from gloves for example)

fredkid wrote: 4 months ago

1 - Can

Redemption be as good as "Life steal" is on an Attack build or it is slow/inconsistent and works more like a "free healing" between fights?
(never used it...)

By "Attack Build" do you mean Melee build?

Redemption is like a +X to life/mana after each kill on steroids but with a slight delay. I use Phoenix on my javazon and she is essentially a "caster". Yes, throwing the

Javelin is technically a melee attack, and the speed is calculated by IAS and not FCR, but MOST of the damage comes from the lightning portion of

Lightning Fury. That elemental damage doesn't count towards life/mana leech, and the spell is quite mana hungry. Only the physical damage portion of the attack is calculated for life/mana leech. Since life/mana steal is mostly negated with this build, and Insight Merc can't keep up, the life/mana corpse recoup is a great boost since it doesn't matter HOW the monster was killed.
Phoenix can roll with level 10-15

Redemption Aura. So, at the low end you have a 71% chance to get 70 life and mana points from each corpse within a 10.6 yard radius. At the high end you have an 80% chance to get 95 life and mana points per redeemed corpse within that same radius.

Just to clarify

For me "Attack Build", means a Physical Attack build (can be Melee builds - like

Zeal, Fury - or Long Range build - like

Strafe, Throw Barbarian)
(builds that need to have a high damaging weapon to be good)

Javazon I consider more of a caster build

fredkid wrote: 4 months ago

Just to clarify

For me "Attack Build", means a Physical Attack build (can be Melee builds - like

Zeal, Fury - or Long Range build - like

Strafe, Throw Barbarian)
(builds that need to have a high damaging weapon to be good)

Javazon I consider more of a caster build

Yea, Javazon is a weird kind of in the middle build. Still uses IAS and mana/life leech does work - to an extent. That's why people go for ethereal upp'd

Titan's Revenge. The increased base

Javelin damage (which is 100% phyiscal) directly benefits the mana/life leech calculations.

fredkid wrote: 4 months ago

1 - Can

Redemption be as good as "Life steal" is on an Attack build or it is slow/inconsistent and works more like a "free healing" between fights?
(never used it...)

2 - On calculations, The Griffons Eye setup starts to do more damage than the

Tal Rasha's setup when monster Lightning Resistance is close to 50% but not that much.
But the calculations were considering a perfect Griffons Eye...
With a bad Griffons Eye this "Lightning Resistance break point" will be higher.
And with a min Griffons Eye,

Tal Rasha's setup with be better (same -15% to Enemy Lightning Resistance and more % Lightning Damage)
(considering my setup on the other equipment)

3 - Tried the

Tal Rasha's setup a little on

Chaos Sanctuary and seems better than my original setup (the feeling is that I cleared faster), and perceive no difference against lightning imunes (even my -X% to Enemy Lightning Resistance vs immunes, being reduced from -52% - Crescent Moon + Infinity - to -32% -

Tal Rasha's Lidless Eye + Infinity)

#1 The value of Phoenix may not seem visible, I was doubting it too before I made it but there is no going back. I rarely drink from

Belt at all. This makes hand relaxed and lazy, actually died once on throne room when I

Teleport in, cast

Chain Lightning as usual and there were x20 Death dolls spawned and burst with location lag ) This is not viable with full set since Spirit is needed to meet 105 fcr and above, thus my recommendation as final item once you have griffon, sweb and chains.

#2 For me the only perk that griffon build has (unless got Jahs to put -5/+5s too) is that you can equip Phoenix and still meet 105 fcr + the looks. Overall very costly upgrade.

#3 May be due to faster fcr. 105 is a must for faster

Teleport, I prefer 117 to meet

Chain Lightning fcr frame. Overall the full set is very good set that offer skill, fcr, fhr, -enemy res, @ res, health, mana, mf etc.

-res on broken immune is still 1/5 and rounded down regardless of source, so eye will be -3% and Crescent Moon be like -7%, with Infinity -20% / -24% I presume. -3% vs -7% is a big difference, -20% vs -24% may be not as much.

May be we can play together sometime, I can show you Phoenix build, you can show me Crescent Moon build and we can get some ideas out of it.

DCain wrote: 4 months ago

fredkid wrote: 4 months ago

-res on broken immune is still 1/5 and rounded down regardless of source, so eye will be -3% and Crescent Moon be like -7%, with Infinity -20% / -24% I presume. -3% vs -7% is a big difference, -20% vs -24% may be not as much.

From what I know (and read on sites like https://maxroll.gg/),

Conviction,

Lower Resist and

Cold Mastery are reduced to 1/5 after sundering (not sure about

Amplify Damage and

Decrepify but my guess is "yes too")

But -resist from itens are not reduced (and they will never break immunity by themselves). They work with full value after sundering.

I was not playing when sunder charm appear for the first time, but almost sure that initially

Cold Mastery was not reduced to 1/5 either (only the -Resist that could break resistance were reduced after sundering), but it end up being considered too overpowered and the 1/5 restriction started to be applied to

Cold Mastery on next patch.

My understanding of -res had been incorrect. Thank you for the correction.

The Oculus is a lot lesser item, I don't think anyone is using it as BiS (and not even as a budget item). Nowadays you will see people going with self-wielding Infinities for the Lightning build and Eschuta's for Fire and sometimes Lightning (but it's also great for dual specs) and DF for the Cold one. Second best is definitely full

Tal's set. There are also some weirdo enthusiasts like me who are for Team Obsession.

Oculus value just fell of the grid more or less. Mostly because of the annoyance of Tele proc.

In my initial Idea

The Oculus was not intended to be the final equip.
The point is that if I would already get -Resistance from

Griffon's Eye, it would be better to replace Crescent Moon for a +Skill +fcr weapon.

The Oculus is the best that I already have

But the second step would be replace it for The Heart of the Oak or

Eschuta's Temper (which I would have to drop/trade).

fredkid wrote: 4 months ago

In my initial Idea

The Oculus was not intended to be the final equip.
The point is that if I would already get -Resistance from

Griffon's Eye, it would be better to replace Crescent Moon for a +Skill +fcr weapon.

The Oculus is the best that I already have

But the second step would be replace it for The Heart of the Oak or

Eschuta's Temper (which I would have to drop/trade).

If you need a Heart of the Oak. I can give you one for free if needed, help with your testing etc.

I've used three piece

Tal Rasha before (mainly for magic find) and enjoyed it. Armour has decent resists too.

I have one (only one)
But it is my Necro's Oak (I can borrow to test but have to give back then )

fredkid wrote: 4 months ago

I have one (only one)
But it is my Necro's Oak (I can borrow to test but have to give back then )

No need to give back, I roll them often. If you find a spare four socket

Flail you can give me that instead ;0.

M1ck wrote: 4 months ago

fredkid wrote: 4 months ago

I have one (only one)
But it is my Necro's Oak (I can borrow to test but have to give back then )

No need to give back, I roll them often. If you find a spare four socket

Flail you can give me that instead ;0.

When I drop one I will text you

fredkid wrote: 4 months ago

(not sure about

Amplify Damage and

Decrepify but my guess is "yes too")

No, Blizzard in a stroke of brilliance decided that

Amplify Damage and

Decrepify should continue to work at full effect vs sundered enemies even after they made the change for

Cold Mastery. Maybe it was because there are no other ways to reduce physical resistance (no -X% to enemy physical resistance items), maybe they just forgot about these curses, who knows?

ShadowHeart wrote: 4 months ago

fredkid wrote: 4 months ago

(not sure about

Amplify Damage and

Decrepify but my guess is "yes too")

No, Blizzard in a stroke of brilliance decided that

Amplify Damage and

Decrepify should continue to work at full effect vs sundered enemies even after they made the change for

Cold Mastery. Maybe it was because there are no other ways to reduce physical resistance (no -X% to enemy physical resistance items), maybe they just forgot about these curses, who knows?

But to break immunity (if you have no sunder) do

Amplify Damage and

Decrepify work at 1/5 or at full?
(ie.

Amplify Damage will break up to 119% or up to 199% physical resistance?)