Latent and Renewed Sunder Charms

SaveMeXenu wrote: 6 hours ago

anselmo wrote: 14 hours ago

SaveMeXenu wrote: 15 hours ago

Can I ask what you think we did for 20 years before sunder charms existed? What do you mean new players will never have the chance to play hell? They'll just have to play like we used to, which involves playing some variation of hybrid if you want to farm everything. The game facilitates that better these days too because you can just respec when you get your charm. Sunder charms do not enable hell, they enable hyper specialized builds and laziness.

I've seen other players saying that Sunder Charms have broken the game. I disagree. They enabled some builds that were too weak without them. Casual and new players had more chances with the former sunder. Games have changed a lot in 20 years. There's no problem with evolution. Nobody is lazy because of that. Now we have a feature that is so insane to get that it has almost become a Dream. 99.99% of players don't have a Sunder Charm, not even a bad one, and 0.01% are extremely lucky or pro players with insanely strong Sunder Charms, better than before. I know that Diablo must have some challenge or it will become boring too soon, but Sunder Charms are completely unbalanced now. The new Ancient Ubers are much easier to do. If you think sunder is bad, then the devs should remove it from the game. Otherwise, you will create an unfair difference between new players who will never get a Sunder Charm and old or pro players with an insane advantage.

Did you seriously type this out on a forum for Diablo 2 of all games? While also dodging my question no less. Please, answer it.
Moving to your other points though; Sunder charms neither break the game, nor are they a requirement to do literally any content in the game. I also never said people are lazy for using them, I said they enable people to be lazy. Meaning you never have to swap skills because you can just spam your main skill at everything.
Everything you wrote can also be applied to literally any high rune in the game. The first player to find a

Jah and

Ber rune in the ladder has a massive advantage. Get some perspective and stop whining. If your build is too weak to play without a sunder charm, change your build. The game gives you 3 free respecs. Use them. If you're out, farm tokens of absolution, which I know for a fact you can do fairly easily without a sunder charm.
If you're complaining about the ladder being an unfair race for the average joe, Sunder charms are the least of your concerns. You already stand no chance because the ladder is a team effort for the top players. None of them do it solo. Moreover, this is you moving goalposts. You've pivoted from "the game can't be played without sunder charms" to "players who have them have a very large advantage over those who don't", and that advantage only matters if you're talking about competing on the ladder.
Editing to add on that I also never said I don't like sunder charms, so I don't know where you're getting the whole "if you don't like sunder charms" thing. They're fine. They should be rare, they literally do what Infinity does but better and don't take a weapon slot. That should be rarer than 2

Ber runes, a

Mal rune and an

Ist rune plus a 4 socketed polearm.

Just read carefully what I wrote: “other players are saying it is broken.” Are you those other players? It does not make sense to argue about what we did 20 years ago when the game had no sunder charms. The game has changed. The builds have changed. The players have changed. Many builds and balance adjustments were made assuming easy access to sunder charms. Now the game depends on them. Otherwise, we would need to go back to how things worked in the past: using very specific classes, very specific builds, and very specific map locations.

To make a comparison, imagine someone makes computers extremely expensive and rare, and I come here to complain: “This will make life impossible for new engineers.” Would you respond: “How did engineers work 20 years ago?” Do you see? It makes no sense. You are comparing two completely different realities.

And regarding my complaint about the terrible drop rate making the new sunder charm frustrating, you can simply spend five minutes searching the internet and you will find many experienced players agreeing with this. I agree that the new OP sunder charm should be quite rare. But now it is INSANE. I have completed four sets of Ancient Ubers. I have obtained high runes by selling items legally in the game. And I have not seen a single sunder charm. That is extremely frustrating.

I don't know how often you are playing. But I am seeing some latent sunder charms being sold by dozens of JAHS. In some places for softcore non ladder 40 JAHs!!! 40!!!! It's 20x harder than a Infinity.

Moderator mode on :

Slowly this topic is derailing.
Keep all calm, breathe, discuss calmly and this will stay open. Else, I'll close.

Moderator mode off.

As for the discussion : I think you're actually both having different points of view on a certain fact.

Do remember that this has been very recently added - it is very possible that those drop rates are adjusted, as they do seem very low for now.

Also, the old Sunders stay farmable rather easily on D2R and can then be transferred to D2RotW - they won't be "renewable" but they stay accessible for people willing to use it to level their chars (knowing they are level 75+ anyway, so it's not exactly early level up anyway).

Stay calm and enjoy the game

Anyone around when D4 was released and to appeal to nostalgia they had the

Harlequin Crest. Except they made the drop ridiculously rare, it was something line it would take a million years before any player found one. It comes to a point, why even waste the time to create the item when nobody will ever find it. Eventually D4 devs adjusted this, and now you are guaranteed to get one every season. Maybe in a seasonal game this needs to exist.

What they did with Sunder was to make this item too rare that most just will never have one. Except this is not Tyreal's Might now. I think of Sunders as more of a tool, maybe akin to a

Scroll of Town Portal is a tool for transport. Armor protects you, weapon gives you damage. This is not to say that Sunders need drop like TPs. Here is the problem they introduced.

Most of us play the game by farming or repeating areas we enjoy or feel good about doing. For myself; I do Countess, Summoner, Trav, Meph, Chaos, Nik, and Cows. I don't do

Rocky Waste. I do not know anybody that does

Rocky Waste. Anyone remember the 22 Nights of

Terror? Anyone remember how Trav was skipped, and does anyone remember the uproar by players? That was because Trav is on the go to list for many (maybe most). Most of us know or encounter or did it ourselves, that player that did 1001 Pindle runs.

When they locked Sunders behind Heralds, this required us to play the game in a manner that does not fit the playstyle most use. Now we do need to clear all of

Rocky Waste, and then go onto

Far Oasis. Countless (maybe too many to count by this point) report spending hours with nothing to show for it. There are many a post of players who Terrorize multiple acts and do not even get to 5 Heralds. Now countless players report having spent 6, 8, 10 hours in the same game. If I spend 6 hours on a Saturday farming, playing MY playstyle, I come away happy. My time was spent (keyword alert) EFFICIANTLY. I have played how I want, at the pace I want, doing what I want. Here is another

Key point here. In that time I will no doubt come across

Terror, Hate, and Destruction keys. I invest the time, and the investment returns back to me.

Sunders do not need to be given out a la D4's change to Mythics. At the same time, players should be able to use their time how they want. What this

Herald hunt introduced was simply an unhealthy mechanic requiring players to play in a manner they do not enjoy or have no history of doing (for a reason). The mechanic requires time investment that is just unreasonable, and certainly unattainable to many.

Change the mechanics of how Heralds spawn, increase the spawn rate. Make it so getting to T5

Herald is realistic. Then just make that T5

Herald to guarantee a drop of Widget X. Randomize widget X, so that players over course of days farm the Heralds (hmmm....kind of like

Terror, Hate, and Destruction). Make it so players can play 30 minutes, or 3 hours, but make Widget X obtainable. Find 3, 4, or 5 of Widget X and that can be used to craft any GC found in TZ to a Sunder. Make it so each Widget X is a different color, or flavor, or whatever. Make it so finding excess of Widget X blue is not a problem as you can trade Widget Blue for Widget

Gold.