im on ladder so i m gonna try my best to get close but i may need something like atmas but i like the idea of gavel on switch . Im thinking PlagueClaws with plus 3 Dragon Tail as a start.
As in..ubers/clones or just normal farming? P1 or higher for the most part?
If you're mainly solo farming, I honestly wouldn't bother with atmas and such. Even ignoring the fact that Atma's proc chance is insanely bad, I actually built out a starter-friendly budget version just to see how it goes. And while there is a universe of a difference between the two, you still fairly quickly and affordably get to a point where you 1-shot most non-boss mobs on p1 without even using Tiger Strike, let alone amp. Dragon Tail just scales extremely well off the bat. And yes, by affordable I mean there's no Infinity needed yet either.
IF you want Enchant on you, pre-cast it yourself (Demon Limb). Sure, the lvl is a fair bit lower than an A3 merc but since neither him nor you get Fire Mastery, the dmg is crap either way (~100 with limb, ~350 with a geared merc). The merc would give you ~200% more AR than limb but considering how much %AR you already get from skills and stats and such, that difference is nowhere near big enough to justify sacrificing an act 2 merc. Might alone will massively outperform that and the mere thought of sacrificing Infinity (given some time for gear) for 200% more AR (not to mention losing a solid dmg/tank merc for a shitty iron wolf) in that build genuinely makes me cringe.
IF you want Enchant on you, pre-cast it yourself (Demon Limb). Sure, the lvl is a fair bit lower than an A3 merc but since neither him nor you get Fire Mastery, the dmg is crap either way (~100 with limb, ~350 with a geared merc). The merc would give you ~200% more AR than limb but considering how much %AR you already get from skills and stats and such, that difference is nowhere near big enough to justify sacrificing an act 2 merc. Might alone will massively outperform that and the mere thought of sacrificing Infinity (given some time for gear) for 200% more AR (not to mention losing a solid dmg/tank merc for a shitty iron wolf) in that build genuinely makes me cringe.
can confirm just tested it even with Flickering FlameHelm. other than some flavor points yeah its meh
welllllll....i killed dclone with my current build but man that was a slog. was missing a lot. had to switch to dracs gloves too to stay alive. was getting smacked around but after the switch I could facetank everything.
What's your -res so far? If you're still lacking there and hence also need Life Tap over amp because the fight takes too long, you're bound to take quite a while because he starts out only taking a measly ~2.5% of your outgoing damage (50% phys res without amp cuts down the base, resulting in lower explosion Conversion which in turn is reduced again by 95% fire res).
Sherloc09 wrote: 2 years ago
So, I'm actually playing as a Dragon Tail assassin right now, and can tell you that if you don't have over 1000 life, you're going to die... a lot... Any doll explosions, Fanaticism or might champ packs will one shot you, even with maxed Fade and 50% dr, you're just not gonna live very long. That said, hit 88,000 real world damage yesterday with capped fire and light res, 30% dmg reduction, and 2400 hp. Real world build that will be getting better when I swap into rare gloves and shadow dancers in the coming days. I started S2 Ladder with this build and had Infinity, Phoenix and Enigma self found + trade without bringing over any FG from non-ladder. Getting it done faster than the blizz sorcs feels pretty good. Lotta trav and cows.
why dancers? gores seem better the shadow tree is meh?
Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago
How/where do you actually play with her?
As in..ubers/clones or just normal farming? P1 or higher for the most part?
If you're mainly solo farming, I honestly wouldn't bother with atmas and such. Even ignoring the fact that Atma's proc chance is insanely bad, I actually built out a starter-friendly budget version just to see how it goes. And while there is a universe of a difference between the two, you still fairly quickly and affordably get to a point where you 1-shot most non-boss mobs on p1 without even using Tiger Strike, let alone amp. Dragon Tail just scales extremely well off the bat. And yes, by affordable I mean there's no Infinity needed yet either.
I started ladder playing Cows on P1. You run to a herd, drop two Death sentries, Charge up and kick down the first couple cows, toss out 3 more Death sentries and run towards the next group -- the pack your on will die to ds. Eventually once I farmed up Infinity in about end of week 2 I moved on to Trav, then farmed up Phoenix and Enigma by end of week 3.
nihilninja wrote: 2 years ago
im on ladder so i m gonna try my best to get close but i may need something like atmas but i like the idea of gavel on switch . Im thinking PlagueClaws with plus 3 Dragon Tail as a start.
For those wondering. The real world already tested and successfully farmed up to Flickering Flame, Infinity, Phoenix, Enigma -- in that order -- within first month of s2 ladder is below. It requires level 69 to reach. Dump remaining points into Death Sentry until capped, then Shadow Warrior. Starter gear has to be cheap and easily obtainable without carrying over fg from non-ladder.
For all the builds, the mercenary armor and Helm is up to preference, I choose Treachery and Crown of Thieves for most, but Tals Mask is another cheap alternative, and with a Frenzy merc in the last setup, you can use GFace for more dps since he's dual wielding lawbringers. I didn't completely optimize their setups since it's ladder starter, and you wouldn't have optimization. We can get away with not using an Insight in any of the setups because one point in Cobra Strike is enough to allow you to on demand refill your globes to max using the second Charge of CS in combination with a TS Charge.
nihilninja wrote: 2 years ago
im on ladder so i m gonna try my best to get close but i may need something like atmas but i like the idea of gavel on switch . Im thinking PlagueClaws with plus 3 Dragon Tail as a start.
For those wondering. The real world already tested and successfully farmed up to Flickering Flame, Infinity, Phoenix, Enigma -- in that order -- within first month of s2 ladder is below. It requires level 69 to reach. Dump remaining points into Death Sentry until capped, then Shadow Warrior. Starter gear has to be cheap and easily obtainable without carrying over fg from non-ladder.
For all the builds, the mercenary armor and Helm is up to preference, I choose Treachery and Crown of Thieves for most, but Tals Mask is another cheap alternative, and with a Frenzy merc in the last setup, you can use GFace for more dps since he's dual wielding lawbringers. I didn't completely optimize their setups since it's ladder starter, and you wouldn't have optimization. We can get away with not using an Insight in any of the setups because one point in Cobra Strike is enough to allow you to on demand refill your globes to max using the second Charge of CS in combination with a TS Charge.
nice. Flickering Flame just seems like a waste as Dragon Tail isnt a fire skill, nor Phoenix Strike. and the negative fire rez is pretty small. Dragon Tail seems to scale pretty ridiculously of just plus to skills. but my goal is to make a Dragon Tail assassin that can kill ubers. seems to be tougher than i thought because on paper we should murder everything. but it seems just going Dragon Talon and being a fast vessel for crushing blow is still just better. problem is with the change to Dragon Talon (no longer auto hits without Charge up) you dont have enough AR as a one point wonder. you have to max it out. maybe its worth it instead of points into the trap tree for Death Sentry since i wont be really farming much and just killing ubers
nihilninja wrote: 2 years ago
but my goal is to make a Dragon Tail assassin that can kill ubers. seems to be tougher than i thought because on paper we should murder everything. but it seems just going Dragon Talon and being a fast vessel for crushing blow is still just better.
Out of curiosity, what would you target as a rough budget for that? <Ber? Up to a Ber? Infinity? Infinity++?
I was actually debating that goal as well. I know you can turn this into something that completely annihilates ubers cuz..well, mine does. But that's based on best-case testbed gear which you probably won't have an easy time getting to within say a single season. At the very least not the Claws. Been meaning to come up with a solid middle-Ground approach that is cheaper, still lights them up but is also still tanky enough to not just get annihilated along the way. Curious to know what your target-budget would be as sort of a guide.
Fair warning:
Incoming rambling wall of text/pics cuz..well, that's what boredom does.
Upon further investigation, turns out you can throw together just about anything (or at least it feels like that) and it works quite well.
Just as a very first, certainly VERY far from optimized starting point: https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/db0106ic
(Yeah, I finally figured out how to save that stuff just for u - far from a suggested or ideal build but a perfectly viable one just as a proof of concept)
The idea behind that was simply to
a) be on a budget (excluding the merc/Infinity, the fort can just as well be Duress which would probably actually be better for more crushing)
b) get enough res to Cap against meph (she's quite overcapped as is so neither torch nor anni need to actually be perfect - plenty of wiggle room)
c) throw everything into vita
And then see if she keeps enough dmg to kill stuff at a decent pace.
Spoiler alert:
Yeah...yeah she does... Spoiler
I was too lazy to down-lvl my testbed assa so to take her back down from 99, just pretend her life is about 250 lower when buffed. Didn't even come close to spending all of her skill points so that's the only real difference.
I will say, coming from a pally as my usual choice for a main uber runner (not counting the novel sorc this season), it is frankly just ridiculous how tanky she is at that gear lvl. One might argue that CtA isn't quite budget but hey...it ran out before I touched Lilith and I didn't even notice a difference so..yeah. As a budget pally, you kinda Dodge her trash to not get blown up. You also tend to cleanse off the amp before moving on to Lilith. With this girl..I just charged straight at everything, not giving a damn because her life genuinely didn't budge. Amp..3 champ packs..who cares? Amp for Lilith? Doesn't matter.
The only challenge in the entire run (and cause for my use of pots later on) was Baal. Not because he's tough but because I managed to mess up the pull, got both him and Diablo at the same time initally and was so overrun with adds that I genuinely could not find Baal to click on him anymore. Took forever to sort that out. Could be avoided by simply having more suitable Key mappings for this so you only change the action for your click and keep him locked (rather than alternate buttons and have to re-click like I did out of habit). If you do get overrun though, his phys immune adds cause your explosion to also do no dmg (since you had no base phys dmg to start with), meaning noone is taking any damage. Except for eventually you because no dmg = no leech. Honestly though, even with both of them and a million adds, it still took absurdly long to actually take any noticeable damage.
Amp would've also solved that as you could just explode on the otherwise immune adds but since I went for tanky here, drac's made that not a thing.
Again, that build is far, FAAAR from ideal but considering that it is just quickly thrown together and the overall price point of the assa's gear, I was genuinely surprised by just how well it works.
Dclone dies about as fast as he does from a fully geared smiter (which..is kinda sad actually). So do the mini ubers for the most part. Duriel takes a tad longer since this gear doesn't have you overcapped on IAS, meaning his aura seriously slows you down. Meph is an absolute joke and just disturbingly weak against her. Dia (by himself...) is comparable to a smiter approach. Baal is the only one that really takes noticeably longer but that's with the above-noted control issues in mind.
Bottom line:
Definitely a solid build, even with patchwork crap gear. Though yes, the Infinity obviously stands out as non-budget. I'd argue it'll still work perfectly fine without it, just takes a bit longer on bosses. For adds, it makes zero difference because everything (and I mean everything) dies in one hit if you have 2 or 3 charges up, without Infinity. Basically just kept running, 1-shot 2 packs, used the third for 2 tiger Claws to get back to 3 and 1-shot 2 more packs. Merc can't keep up, falls behind and Conviction never applies. Makes Death Sentry a complete waste of time as well.
Moving up in gear would scale up the damage VERY well from that point, resulting in exceptional performance overall and taking not too long to get you to the point where you don't even use any charges for any trash anymore. For reference, in that crap gear, a cow (P1) typically takes 3-4 hits with no charges and no Conviction applied, 2 with 1 Charge and 1 hit with 2 or 3 charges.
Additionally, considering how stupidly tanky this build is, I would call the life pool complete overkill (even without the 99 bonus and without CtA). There's no reason imo to not take a few (hundred) points out of vita and dump them into more damage which also scales very well for that build.
I did also forget to switch the merc out so there was no might. Had Holy Freeze up instead. That naturally helped the tankyness a bit but came at the cost of more dmg.
The real goal for this would be to optimize the actual assa gear a bit (ok, a LOT) more while staying on a budget and keeping the same performance or close to it while dropping the Infinity, in order to make it a true budget build.
nihilninja wrote: 2 years ago
but my goal is to make a Dragon Tail assassin that can kill ubers. seems to be tougher than i thought because on paper we should murder everything. but it seems just going Dragon Talon and being a fast vessel for crushing blow is still just better.
Out of curiosity, what would you target as a rough budget for that? <Ber? Up to a Ber? Infinity? Infinity++?
I was actually debating that goal as well. I know you can turn this into something that completely annihilates ubers cuz..well, mine does. But that's based on best-case testbed gear which you probably won't have an easy time getting to within say a single season. At the very least not the Claws. Been meaning to come up with a solid middle-Ground approach that is cheaper, still lights them up but is also still tanky enough to not just get annihilated along the way. Curious to know what your target-budget would be as sort of a guide.
I would say what ever it costs to be able to completely gear up to be functional. I think ive spent about 10 ists total. but ive also gotten stuff that i wont be using with that budget. and most of it went to skillers with life. so that minus Infinity. i always treat Infinity as a QoL thing. I dont go hard for it but if the build is done then why not right? but yeah GG blue items that you probably are only gonna be able to buy with forbidden FG id say nah.
Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago
Fair warning:
Incoming rambling wall of text/pics cuz..well, that's what boredom does.
Upon further investigation, turns out you can throw together just about anything (or at least it feels like that) and it works quite well.
Just as a very first, certainly VERY far from optimized starting point: https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/db0106ic
(Yeah, I finally figured out how to save that stuff just for u - far from a suggested or ideal build but a perfectly viable one just as a proof of concept)
The idea behind that was simply to
a) be on a budget (excluding the merc/Infinity, the fort can just as well be Duress which would probably actually be better for more crushing)
b) get enough res to Cap against meph (she's quite overcapped as is so neither torch nor anni need to actually be perfect - plenty of wiggle room)
c) throw everything into vita
And then see if she keeps enough dmg to kill stuff at a decent pace.
Spoiler alert:
Yeah...yeah she does... Spoiler
image.png
I was too lazy to down-lvl my testbed assa so to take her back down from 99, just pretend her life is about 250 lower when buffed. Didn't even come close to spending all of her skill points so that's the only real difference.
I will say, coming from a pally as my usual choice for a main uber runner (not counting the novel sorc this season), it is frankly just ridiculous how tanky she is at that gear lvl. One might argue that CtA isn't quite budget but hey...it ran out before I touched Lilith and I didn't even notice a difference so..yeah. As a budget pally, you kinda Dodge her trash to not get blown up. You also tend to cleanse off the amp before moving on to Lilith. With this girl..I just charged straight at everything, not giving a damn because her life genuinely didn't budge. Amp..3 champ packs..who cares? Amp for Lilith? Doesn't matter.
The only challenge in the entire run (and cause for my use of pots later on) was Baal. Not because he's tough but because I managed to mess up the pull, got both him and Diablo at the same time initally and was so overrun with adds that I genuinely could not find Baal to click on him anymore. Took forever to sort that out. Could be avoided by simply having more suitable Key mappings for this so you only change the action for your click and keep him locked (rather than alternate buttons and have to re-click like I did out of habit). If you do get overrun though, his phys immune adds cause your explosion to also do no dmg (since you had no base phys dmg to start with), meaning noone is taking any damage. Except for eventually you because no dmg = no leech. Honestly though, even with both of them and a million adds, it still took absurdly long to actually take any noticeable damage.
Amp would've also solved that as you could just explode on the otherwise immune adds but since I went for tanky here, drac's made that not a thing.
Again, that build is far, FAAAR from ideal but considering that it is just quickly thrown together and the overall price point of the assa's gear, I was genuinely surprised by just how well it works.
Dclone dies about as fast as he does from a fully geared smiter (which..is kinda sad actually). So do the mini ubers for the most part. Duriel takes a tad longer since this gear doesn't have you overcapped on IAS, meaning his aura seriously slows you down. Meph is an absolute joke and just disturbingly weak against her. Dia (by himself...) is comparable to a smiter approach. Baal is the only one that really takes noticeably longer but that's with the above-noted control issues in mind.
Bottom line:
Definitely a solid build, even with patchwork crap gear. Though yes, the Infinity obviously stands out as non-budget. I'd argue it'll still work perfectly fine without it, just takes a bit longer on bosses. For adds, it makes zero difference because everything (and I mean everything) dies in one hit if you have 2 or 3 charges up, without Infinity. Basically just kept running, 1-shot 2 packs, used the third for 2 tiger Claws to get back to 3 and 1-shot 2 more packs. Merc can't keep up, falls behind and Conviction never applies. Makes Death Sentry a complete waste of time as well.
Moving up in gear would scale up the damage VERY well from that point, resulting in exceptional performance overall and taking not too long to get you to the point where you don't even use any charges for any trash anymore. For reference, in that crap gear, a cow (P1) typically takes 3-4 hits with no charges and no Conviction applied, 2 with 1 Charge and 1 hit with 2 or 3 charges.
Additionally, considering how stupidly tanky this build is, I would call the life pool complete overkill (even without the 99 bonus and without CtA). There's no reason imo to not take a few (hundred) points out of vita and dump them into more damage which also scales very well for that build.
I did also forget to switch the merc out so there was no might. Had Holy Freeze up instead. That naturally helped the tankyness a bit but came at the cost of more dmg.
The real goal for this would be to optimize the actual assa gear a bit (ok, a LOT) more while staying on a budget and keeping the same performance or close to it while dropping the Infinity, in order to make it a true budget build.
oh wow. nice. my question is do you do the Charge ups rotation when fight them or just spam kicks? which is best?
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