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21 replies   15323 views
1

Can anyone educate me how Lo rune can be more expensive than Sur?

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2

Description

I totally get that
Lo
can be used in more frequently used runewords like Fortitude, and I saw many posts that
Lo
rune's drop rate is lower than
Sur
? (not sure if this is true)

But if you just think about how 2x
Sur
can be
Ber
, which seems to be worth more than 2x
Lo
or even higher according to this site's price checking tool, it becomes really hard to understand why
Lo
is worth more than
Sur
. Do the math: 2
Sur
=
Ber
=2
Lo
this means 1
Sur
should be 1
Lo
. Not lower than that.

If this is the case, why do people sell
Sur
in the first place, rather than just getting another
Sur
, cubing it to
Ber
and selling
Ber
at a much better price? Can anyone provide any Insight?
5

Can be used to make Runewords:

7
I totally get that
Lo
can be used in more frequently used runewords like Fortitude, and I saw many posts that
Lo
rune's drop rate is lower than
Sur
? (not sure if this is true)

But if you just think about how 2x
Sur
can be
Ber
, which seems to be worth more than 2x
Lo
or even higher according to this site's price checking tool, it becomes really hard to understand why
Lo
is worth more than
Sur
. Do the math: 2
Sur
=
Ber
=2
Lo
this means 1
Sur
should be 1
Lo
. Not lower than that.

If this is the case, why do people sell
Sur
in the first place, rather than just getting another
Sur
, cubing it to
Ber
and selling
Ber
at a much better price? Can anyone provide any Insight?
7
User avatar

BillyMaysed 2170Moderator

Sorceress Americas PC
High Rune pricing doesnt go exactly in order of rarity or level. The Runewords they create are #1.
Jah
and
Ber
are extremely valuable because they can make Enigma and Infinity, the 2 most commonly used and OP runewords in the game along with Grief and Fortitude, which are made with a
Lo


Sur
sucks because no great runewords need it. Its ONLY value is that its "half of a
Ber
". So only really valuable to someone who already has a
Sur
(or is willing to wait) to transmute to
Ber
.

Same situation with
Gul
, where its mostly useless besides its "half of a
Vex
".

7
After
Gul
, the "2x rune = next rune" value no longer applies. For
Vex
and up, each rune has a value which in no way correlates to the cube recipes anymore (other than arguably "2
Cham
=
Zod
"), only rariry, supply, and demand. For all intents and purposes you can assume those recipes don't exist unless you can't find a trade and are really desperate
7
User avatar

Banjo 138

Sorceress Americas PC
I think the reason why tho is that it’s not exactly easy to just get two
Sur
. Yes you can cube two
Sur
for a
Ber
and sell for two
Lo
, but getting the second
Sur
can take a long long time, where
Lo
is ready to go being a valuable part of a rune word right away, so it has more utility, henceforth more value.
7
or people just don't know to cube 2
Sur
into a
Ber
like me :). maybe you should educate them

Currently taking a break from doing uber services. My old uber service thread: trade/uber-service-for-cheap-price-t331131.html.
7
User avatar

BillyMaysed 2170Moderator

Sorceress Americas PC
FREE_LOOP wrote: 2 years ago
or people just don't know to cube 2
Sur
into a
Ber
like me :).
You mean like everyone? lol.

7
BillyMaysed wrote: 2 years ago
FREE_LOOP wrote: 2 years ago
or people just don't know to cube 2
Sur
into a
Ber
like me :).
You mean like everyone? lol.
I mean like a percent that is significant enough to change the market price

Currently taking a break from doing uber services. My old uber service thread: trade/uber-service-for-cheap-price-t331131.html.
7
User avatar

Teebling 5763Admin

Europe PC
Just came here to say that Diablo 2 is a bartering market. That means that where no fixed currency exists, the individual needs of the players is what determines the value of your
Sur
or your
Lo
.

If someone needs one more than the other, it will have more worth.

7
BillyMaysed wrote: 2 years ago
High Rune pricing doesnt go exactly in order of rarity or level. The Runewords they create are #1.
Jah
and
Ber
are extremely valuable because they can make Enigma and Infinity, the 2 most commonly used and OP runewords in the game along with Grief and Fortitude, which are made with a
Lo


Sur
sucks because no great runewords need it. Its ONLY value is that its "half of a
Ber
". So only really valuable to someone who already has a
Sur
(or is willing to wait) to transmute to
Ber
.

Same situation with
Gul
, where its mostly useless besides its "half of a
Vex
".
To put this into another perspective: Supply and demand
All mercenary builds need Fortitude.
Grief is the best melee weapon (Barb/Smiter).
Need 2
Sur
to make
Ber
, which is high value but expensive and people selling
Sur
only want other high runes which limits customer base.
7
PnutBudda wrote: 2 years ago
FREE_LOOP wrote: 2 years ago
or people just don't know to cube 2
Sur
into a
Ber
like me :). maybe you should educate them
Use this site (or search google) for cube / rune recipies...
Sur
+
Sur
+
Flawless Amethyst
=
Ber

https://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Rune_list
before this thread I never thought cubing could be an option. I always thought selling runes individually on market is always better value than cubing them.

Currently taking a break from doing uber services. My old uber service thread: trade/uber-service-for-cheap-price-t331131.html.
7
More often that not 2 runes of one kind is half the value of the next rune this goes for
Pul
,
Um
,
Mal
Gul
,
Vex
,
Ohm
,
Sur
and
Cham
. All these runes er worth half of the rune one step higher on the rune ladder, However some runes defies these rules mostly due to the rune being more useful than the rune one step qbove them, this goes for
Ist
,
Lo
,
Ber
all more valuable than half the rune 1 step above them on rune ladder, all because they are more useful than the one above them, for
Ber
and
Lo
the fact that they are more rare than the one qbove them also factors in but is less important hence their value twnds to be equal or very nearly equal to the one above them.

Lo
is generally not more valuable than
Sur
they are equal in price, later in game
Sur
might very well surpass
Lo
in value because
Jah
and
Ber
tends to increase in value in time compared to all other runes.
Ber
and
Jah
er close but
Ber
is a bit more expensive than
Jah
atm. This might as well change with time since both
Sur
and
Ber
drops factor in when counting the amount og
Ber
on the market,
Jah
is only factored by
Jah
drops. Most other runes will always have the value they have now due to the rune-ranks.

Hope this helps a bit :-) in the end there are a few factors that factor in when determining value but it all comes down to rune-rank, supply and demand. Rarity affects supply and usefulness affects demand, the rank of the rune is a constant which keeps the runes value in correlation to one another in most cases :-)
7
You kind of answered your own question.

A
Sur
is only valuable if you have 2 of them to cube to
Ber
. A
Lo
is immediately useful in Grief which is arguably the best melee weapon in the game, and Fortitude which is again arguably one of the best melee armors in the game.

The games all about supply and demand, I'd say based on market and my personal experience
Lo
and
Sur
drop rates are close enough to each other that the drop rate is negligible when determining their worth.
7
kevdrogo wrote: 2 years ago
You kind of answered your own question.

A
Sur
is only valuable if you have 2 of them to cube to
Ber
. A
Lo
is immediately useful in Grief which is arguably the best melee weapon in the game, and Fortitude which is again arguably one of the best melee armors in the game.

The games all about supply and demand, I'd say based on market and my personal experience
Lo
and
Sur
drop rates are close enough to each other that the drop rate is negligible when determining their worth.
so the problem is people doesn't want
Ber
that bad enough now, which is strange. In my opinion Grief and Fortitude are great for pysical damage character, but the main classes people are using to MF are mostly elemental damage or magical damage these days. So I think runewords like Infinity and Enigma should be much more desired, even though it takes 2
Sur
rune to cube into one
Ber
rune. I don't know what people are thinking but anyway for me a
Sur
rune is surely more value than
Lo
rune, as I don't run any physical damage character.

Currently taking a break from doing uber services. My old uber service thread: trade/uber-service-for-cheap-price-t331131.html.
7
FREE_LOOP wrote: 2 years ago
kevdrogo wrote: 2 years ago
You kind of answered your own question.

A
Sur
is only valuable if you have 2 of them to cube to
Ber
. A
Lo
is immediately useful in Grief which is arguably the best melee weapon in the game, and Fortitude which is again arguably one of the best melee armors in the game.

The games all about supply and demand, I'd say based on market and my personal experience
Lo
and
Sur
drop rates are close enough to each other that the drop rate is negligible when determining their worth.
so the problem is people doesn't want
Ber
that bad enough now, which is strange. In my opinion Grief and Fortitude are great for pysical damage character, but the main classes people are using to MF are mostly elemental damage or magical damage these days. So I think runewords like Infinity and Enigma should be much more desired, even though it takes 2
Sur
rune to cube into one
Ber
rune. I don't know what people are thinking but anyway for me a
Sur
rune is surely more value than
Lo
rune, as I don't run any physical damage character.
It's not so much that people don't want
Ber
, everyone does, it's just not so easy to obtain.

For example -
I'm a newish player and I've leveled a barb to 85 but have mediocre gear. I drop a
Lo
rune. I can now either make a Grief or Fortitude which is a huge immediate upgrade.

Ex 2 -
I drop a
Sur
rune. I have no idea when I will find another
Sur
if ever. So if I sit on this
Sur
for 2 weeks farming and hoping to find items to trade up to a
Sur
or just a another
Sur
altogether and find nothing then I haven't really made much progress.

Of course in the long term it would still make more sense if you needed a
Ber
(which most people do) but instant gratification from the
Lo
and a more reasonable upgrade path make it more desirable right now in my opinion.
7
Frankly, debating worth as though some intrinsic value could be arrived at is futile and circular in a market governed by subjective perceptions with barter as its currency, as Teebling pointed out.

First, there is no accepted currency, this has evolved many times over the years. Whatever seemed to have reliable, portable value became IT for a while until fashions shifted.

Second, perception. If I think
Ber
is more valuable than another item and testify to that fact through a trade, then it becomes so. Plain and simple. The reason being that having made such a trade I am a market maker. If enough people share my perception then that will end up setting the prevailing price.

So, arguing that something should be cheaper or another thing more expensive goes nowhere. Things get cheaper when supply increases or demand decreases. In this game, if the majority of players think that item X is BIS under certain circumstances then the price will reflect that.

They could be wrong, though, couldn't they? They might be reacting to some new guide or build which achieves popularity. Or ... simply put, a new build emerges which seems fun enough to make waves in the community.

That's what it boils down to. Many items move slowly, others sell like hotcakes. Oftentimes, this is much less related to the items true utility (even that is silly and vague, as one person's BIS is another's vendor trash), than the real driver of value in D2.

Popularity.
7
hear hear

Currently taking a break from doing uber services. My old uber service thread: trade/uber-service-for-cheap-price-t331131.html.
7
User avatar

Durok 11

PC
also bear in mind that with 1
Ber
rune you can do jack
Ber
requires another fat rune to make those big rws.
So even you finally got your
Ber
, you cannot do anything with it. But with 2
Lo
you can have a very sold char already
7
uppertunic wrote: 2 years ago
I totally get that
Lo
can be used in more frequently used runewords like Fortitude, and I saw many posts that
Lo
rune's drop rate is lower than
Sur
? (not sure if this is true)

But if you just think about how 2x
Sur
can be
Ber
, which seems to be worth more than 2x
Lo
or even higher according to this site's price checking tool, it becomes really hard to understand why
Lo
is worth more than
Sur
. Do the math: 2
Sur
=
Ber
=2
Lo
this means 1
Sur
should be 1
Lo
. Not lower than that.

If this is the case, why do people sell
Sur
in the first place, rather than just getting another
Sur
, cubing it to
Ber
and selling
Ber
at a much better price? Can anyone provide any Insight?
you are totally right no doubt.
Then only reason people is saying that
Lo
is valuable than
Sur
is that they want to make money through selling
Ber

Keep your
Sur
, don't trust those bastard. And
Sur
would be slightly higher than
Lo
in the futher since
Ber
needed but drop less, people will take 2
Sur
for getting
Ber
7
User avatar

xSD 143

Barbarian Americas PC
Man no love for Bramble and any of the Poison based builds huh?

Everyone talking about how
Sur
's are useless when I look forward to my first Bramble roll each season.
9

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